Andre

What are some different brake upgrades people have done and what do they involve. Ive heard 928 S4, 951, big reds. What does each require exactly? What size wheels? Would you need different spacers on the wheels?i have some new 17s, would there be a point to buying spacers now or figure out which brake upgrade i want to do first and then figure out which spacer i need?

lay it on me.

sorry forgot to mention, 86 NA

aribop

check this: https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-944-951-968-forum/213880-na-brakes-aren-t-porsche-like-long.html

Andre

i have been following that... Did not want to interupt the battle. There i've heard of basically 2 upgrades, the wilwoods...and 951 brakes. The thing i'm curious about is prices and other details, like i said fitment and spacing issues. Do you need 951 spindles...hubs? if so then there is no point in me buying spacers for my wheels because i'll just buy late offset 951 stuff. Do you know what i mean? No point in wasting money or doing a job twice so i'd like to get as much info as i can before i shell out the dough.

tifosiman

Here’s what you will need to upgrade an 86 944 to 951 brakes, a total list:

1 pair front 951 calipers and pads
1 pair 951 rear calipers and pads
1 pair front 1986 951 rotors
1 pair rear 1986 951 rotors
4 factory washers and bolts for the rear calipers (necessary to space them to fit inline with the rotor)
4 factory bolts for the front calipers
1 pair (left and right)of front hubs and spindles from a 1986 951 (complete with bearings on each)
1 pair of 1986 951 front struts.
1 pair of front brake hoses from any year 951 and the metal noodles that go with them.

Things that are nice to have, but not necessary:

Bias valve from any year 951, this bolts inline on the master cylinder
Stainless brake lines front and rear
New alignment eccentric bolts for the front strut/spindle interface. Sometimes they are re-usable, sometimes they are so chewed up it is worth replacing them.

Hope that helps.

If you decide to go with big S4 calipers like mine, you would need custom two piece rotors (since Porsche never used calipers as big as the S4 calipers on cars with 23.3mm offset, thus there are no stock rotors available to fit), and caliper block adapters from Powerhaus or Kokeln.

Andre

how much did the entire S4 brake project run you?if you feel thats too personal thats ok.feel free not to answer

tifosiman

Well, it's not too personal. If you asked me for my credit card#, well, that would be too personal.

I spent a lot of time sourcing components from various sources, some were used, some were new. On an N/A, where you have to basically start from scratch and swap all of the above parts, it gets pricey. I seem to recall I spent about $1200 on all of the parts above........................EXCEPT for the custom rotors. Those are from Coleman and are very pricey. The good news is now I only need to buy the rotor parts the next time I need to replace, as I already have the hats. Count on $600+ for the pair of front custom rotors. So, ad all of that up, and if you shop well it would be just short of $2K. S4's would be much cheaper to add to a 951 because someone would have a head start with the basics already, especially if it is a late offset 951/S2 because there are readily available factory rotors that would work for that application.

Andre

I remember seeing big reds for the front for around 1200 or 1300 for NA's. Am i mistaken or do places sell kits like that? I remember seeing this in a magazine... the 993TT brakes? I'm probably way off.

RedlineMan

Hey;

I just weighed in on that stupid thread. I can't always resist skewering bone heads.

The turbo front stuff has different caliper bolt and strut flange spacing. You need the spindle and strut housing. The rear stuff just uses a thick washer as a caliper spacer. Rotors of course. Other than that it bolts right up. I'd wait to see where you land suspension wise before I worried about wheel spacing.

Oh... I see that know-it-all posted a fancy list of EVERYTHING. Hoses too... yeh... Listen to him. He's more thorough! I should write this crap down.

Andre

i'm actually already pretty good on my suspension set up, 250#springs, koni yellow inserts. So i'm all set with suspension and wouldn't want to pay 2 grand for a 951 set up, or even 1500, cost does not equal benefits for me in that case. I will take a look at the magazines to see what i can find, i'm probably wrong about the big reds but i'll check it out. Its probably something like 3 grand. What do you guys think of the wilwood stuff?

tifosiman

The Big Red kits you are seeing are for late-offset 951's, S2's, and 968's. They usually aren't for early (86) 951's and certainly are not for N/A's. Have you ever taken a good look at an N/A spindle compared to a turbo spindle? Porsche beefed up the spindles for a reason. I would hate to think of a set of big reds cobbled onto an N/A spindle with an adapter. That's why the upgrade to even just 951 brakes is fairly costly on an N/A, because you have/need to replace everthing.

Andre

do you not need the control arms from the late offset?they are longer if i'm not mistaken...


Ok so what is the best bang for the buck for brake upgrades for an NA?just grab some new rotors rebuild the calipers and grab some quality pads and leave it at that?

tifosiman

Now you've lost me. We were talking about brake upgrades, I never once mentioned changing a-arms to change offsets. My last comment was to your seeing Big Red kit's for N/A's, of which, there are not any to my knowledge.

Andre

yea i know, sorry i guess it was kind of an abrupt change of topic. I was just wondering whether you needed to change a arms along with spindles and hubs... I cant imagine it costing a grand to change all that though. I mean spindles i've seen for under 50 on ebay, how much could dead struts off a 951 cost? i'd give that about a 50 if you look around, what would you use dead struts for? then i could just drop my inserts in there. and then hubs i have no idea but come on...a grand?really?

tifosiman

You need to do a little more searching, me thinks. Your inserts won't work on turbo struts. If you can get 951 spindles for under $50, get me a pair, I could use a back up set.

Provided that you get the stuff from an 86, you won't need to change the a-arms, as the a-arms were the same on the 85.5/86 N/A's and 86 951's.

Remember, my $1200 included the S4 calipers, new Koni 951 inserts, adapter blocks, and all of that jazz with the exception of the custom 2 piece rotors. Trust me, it adds up quickly.

Andre

yea i see your point. Hmm well i would have liked to do this now since i'm probably goin to have replace my brakes anyways. but i dont know if thats going to happen...i'll do some more research and see what i can come up with.

Suggestions are more than welcome.