C2S vs. C2S-X51
10-22-2005, 06:45 PM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Saint Petersburg, FL
Posts: 701
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C2S vs. C2S-X51
Guys I know my prior thoughts on the X51 package have been extremely compromised by the fact that I hadn't driven a non-X51 Carrera S.
Well, thanks to Bob Fasce at Bert Smith Eurocars here in Saint Petersburg, I have now driven both side by side, one after the other after the other. Seriously, what a great fellow Bob is. I mean, who else would let me drive a brand new CS knowing that I'm not going to buy it?
The CS had the Sport Chrono and the short shifter but no sport exhaust. So unfortunately I can't really compare PSE exhaust notes. I left the Sport mode off on the CS as I don't have that on my car. I don't think it would have mattered much anyway though because I was either at full throttle or on the brakes for the short little circuit I drove. I drove both cars on the same circuit of I-275 onramp, offramp, onramp, offramp, with about 1.5 miles of straight between each on and off ramp. I drove with PASM in sport mode.
The CS felt very much like my 2003 Carrera, especially between 2,000 and 3,000 RPM. Compared to the CS-X51 the CS really felt flat and lifeless down low. I found myself thinking, "ahem, I'm waiting." The CS and CS-X51 feel much closer when it comes to mid-range pull. The CS definately likes to be above 4,000 RPM. The X51 gives you the goods at least 1,000 RPM earlier. And up high, above 5,500 RPM the CS feels like it gets flat again relative to the X51 (as an aside I haven't been over 6,500 RPM in either car because I don't believe in redlining during break in). The X51 just wants to rev up. It feels like a wild animal. The CS is somewhat more gentle. The X51 has scared the crap out of me a couple of times. The CS was within my comfort range at all times and all RPM. I think if one looks at the two torque curves what I'm saying makes some sense.
Let me say a word on exhaust notes. I can't compare the PSE notes, as I said earlier. But I can compare the non-PSE notes. The X51, with PSE off, is a touch louder and noticably raspier.
And a word about the short shifter: I wish I had it. It is sweet. It's just as smooth as stock but the throws are sooooo short.
Now I know some of you, heck, maybe all of you, are thinking, "yeah, yeah, AeroSmith is just trying to make himself feel better about spending an extra 17 bills on his Carrera S." And maybe you're right and maybe you're wrong. But what I'm left thinking is that Porsche has substantially understated the X51's performance benefits.
For me, the extra grunt is well worth the money. But it is a lot of money and I guess I'm lucky to be able to throw 17 grand around for a little more kick in the pants. You all have to make up your own minds on the cost/benefits of the X51. And if you're somewhat more budget constrained the CS is absolutely nothing to sneeze at. It blows most everyting off the road. But if you have a CS or buy a CS I'd recomend not trying out a CS with the X51. If you do you may find yourself calling your dealer. Because, guess what, when they become available (absolutely on way way back order right now) your dealer will be able to install it.
Well, thanks to Bob Fasce at Bert Smith Eurocars here in Saint Petersburg, I have now driven both side by side, one after the other after the other. Seriously, what a great fellow Bob is. I mean, who else would let me drive a brand new CS knowing that I'm not going to buy it?
The CS had the Sport Chrono and the short shifter but no sport exhaust. So unfortunately I can't really compare PSE exhaust notes. I left the Sport mode off on the CS as I don't have that on my car. I don't think it would have mattered much anyway though because I was either at full throttle or on the brakes for the short little circuit I drove. I drove both cars on the same circuit of I-275 onramp, offramp, onramp, offramp, with about 1.5 miles of straight between each on and off ramp. I drove with PASM in sport mode.
The CS felt very much like my 2003 Carrera, especially between 2,000 and 3,000 RPM. Compared to the CS-X51 the CS really felt flat and lifeless down low. I found myself thinking, "ahem, I'm waiting." The CS and CS-X51 feel much closer when it comes to mid-range pull. The CS definately likes to be above 4,000 RPM. The X51 gives you the goods at least 1,000 RPM earlier. And up high, above 5,500 RPM the CS feels like it gets flat again relative to the X51 (as an aside I haven't been over 6,500 RPM in either car because I don't believe in redlining during break in). The X51 just wants to rev up. It feels like a wild animal. The CS is somewhat more gentle. The X51 has scared the crap out of me a couple of times. The CS was within my comfort range at all times and all RPM. I think if one looks at the two torque curves what I'm saying makes some sense.
Let me say a word on exhaust notes. I can't compare the PSE notes, as I said earlier. But I can compare the non-PSE notes. The X51, with PSE off, is a touch louder and noticably raspier.
And a word about the short shifter: I wish I had it. It is sweet. It's just as smooth as stock but the throws are sooooo short.
Now I know some of you, heck, maybe all of you, are thinking, "yeah, yeah, AeroSmith is just trying to make himself feel better about spending an extra 17 bills on his Carrera S." And maybe you're right and maybe you're wrong. But what I'm left thinking is that Porsche has substantially understated the X51's performance benefits.
For me, the extra grunt is well worth the money. But it is a lot of money and I guess I'm lucky to be able to throw 17 grand around for a little more kick in the pants. You all have to make up your own minds on the cost/benefits of the X51. And if you're somewhat more budget constrained the CS is absolutely nothing to sneeze at. It blows most everyting off the road. But if you have a CS or buy a CS I'd recomend not trying out a CS with the X51. If you do you may find yourself calling your dealer. Because, guess what, when they become available (absolutely on way way back order right now) your dealer will be able to install it.
Last edited by AeroSmith; 10-25-2005 at 02:09 PM.
10-22-2005, 07:22 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
AeroSmith,
Thank you for the feedback. I am on the fence about the X51 option. I doubt I'll get the opportunity to drive both back to back. I appreciate your comments.
Thank you for the feedback. I am on the fence about the X51 option. I doubt I'll get the opportunity to drive both back to back. I appreciate your comments.
10-22-2005, 08:06 PM
#5
Banned
Originally Posted by AeroSmith
And a word about the short shifter: I wish I had it. It is sweet. It's just as smooth as stock but the throws are sooooo short.
10-22-2005, 08:32 PM
#6
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Saint Petersburg, FL
Posts: 701
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by OCBen
We tried to tell you 'til we got blue in the face, but noooooooooooo.....
Trending Topics
10-22-2005, 11:03 PM
#8
Newbies Hospitality Director
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 18,085
Likes: 0
Received 32 Likes
on
32 Posts
Originally Posted by AeroSmith
LOL. Can my dealer install this? Me thinks they can...hmmmmmmmmmm.....
10-23-2005, 03:39 AM
#9
3rd Gear
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: italy
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thank you aerosmith, you make the wait a little sweeter. in january the c4s x51 cabrio will be with me and i can't wait. personally i believe the x51 will eventually become some sort of a =must have= option on the used market, and our babies will hold their value very well. not to say one does not lose money selling it, but they will be very desirable, immediate sales. and that is just as cash to me.
thank you for sharing your feelings with us.
have fun and stay safe.
anytime you are in europe after january give me a call and i'll show how much fun it is to drive without the american police force on your back all the time.
ciao silvio
thank you for sharing your feelings with us.
have fun and stay safe.
anytime you are in europe after january give me a call and i'll show how much fun it is to drive without the american police force on your back all the time.
ciao silvio
10-23-2005, 05:30 AM
#10
Instructor
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: good old England
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by AeroSmith
LOL. Can my dealer install this? Me thinks they can...hmmmmmmmmmm.....
Thanks for the X51 comments btw.
10-23-2005, 10:11 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
AeroSmith, you should have tried the run with the Sport Button on. Let me tell you it does make a difference with the 997S. Not to the level of the X51 package but not a bad option for $990 to gain a lot of performance. I think for most it's a matter of preference and cost. I would have loved to add the X51 but as I previously stated it wasn't available at my time of order. Can you tell me is there a possibility of retro-installing at this time? If not I will enjoy my car as is and love the performance I have. Good luck with your car, I think we all envy you.
Jay
Jay
10-23-2005, 10:38 PM
#12
Advanced
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Laguna Niguel, CA
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AeroSmith,
Damn I wish I coud have pulled off an X-51. My wife just woud not go for a 16K option
Funny thing is, affording it was not the issue...she just would not spend the dough on 26 HP...I don't think girls understand a man's need for HP
Oh well...I am going from a 2000 996 to the 997S...I should be wowed by power increase nontheless.
Thanks for the post.
Oz
Damn I wish I coud have pulled off an X-51. My wife just woud not go for a 16K option
Funny thing is, affording it was not the issue...she just would not spend the dough on 26 HP...I don't think girls understand a man's need for HP
Oh well...I am going from a 2000 996 to the 997S...I should be wowed by power increase nontheless.
Thanks for the post.
Oz
10-25-2005, 12:56 AM
#13
Originally Posted by AeroSmith
The CS had the Sport Chrono and the short shifter but no sport exhaust. So unfortunately I can't really compare PSE exhaust notes. I left the Sport mode off on the CS as I don't have that on my car.
The CS felt very much like my 2003 Carrera, especially between 2,000 and 3,000 RPM. Compared to the CS-X51 the CS really felt flat and lifeless down low. I found myself thinking, "ahem, I'm waiting." The CS and CS-X51 feel much closer when it comes to mid-range pull. The CS definately likes to be above 4,000 RPM. The X51 gives you the goods at least 1,000 RPM earlier. And up high, above 5,500 RPM the CS feels like it gets flat again relative to the X51 (as an aside I haven't been over 6,500 RPM in either car because I don't believe in redlining during break in). The X51 just wants to rev up. It feels like a wild animal. The CS is somewhat more gentle. The X51 has scared the crap out of me a couple of times. The CS was within my comfort range at all times and all RPM. I think if one looks at the two torque curves what I'm saying makes some sense.[/B]
The CS felt very much like my 2003 Carrera, especially between 2,000 and 3,000 RPM. Compared to the CS-X51 the CS really felt flat and lifeless down low. I found myself thinking, "ahem, I'm waiting." The CS and CS-X51 feel much closer when it comes to mid-range pull. The CS definately likes to be above 4,000 RPM. The X51 gives you the goods at least 1,000 RPM earlier. And up high, above 5,500 RPM the CS feels like it gets flat again relative to the X51 (as an aside I haven't been over 6,500 RPM in either car because I don't believe in redlining during break in). The X51 just wants to rev up. It feels like a wild animal. The CS is somewhat more gentle. The X51 has scared the crap out of me a couple of times. The CS was within my comfort range at all times and all RPM. I think if one looks at the two torque curves what I'm saying makes some sense.[/B]
Fantastic Info!
X51 vs 997s performance link. I dont know how to link directly to the chart, but it is easy enough to spot
It seems your experience and comments matches up nearly exactly with the performance graph. Very interesting indeed!
Do you have one of those devices that measures your hp? I dont know if they are accurate, but it would be interesting to see if they rate your car above 381.
I wonder if the x51 with sport chrono is even more responsive than without SC.
I am heavily considering getting a sport shifter now after reading your comments on it. I drove the 997 with the sport shift and it is very nice.
It looks like the x51 moves the redline out by 500 rpm over the S as well. What is your redline? 7500?
Thanks again for this great write up.
Greg
ps. PSE should be a must buy. I have a 996 with PSE and it is just awesome.
10-25-2005, 11:13 AM
#14
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Saint Petersburg, FL
Posts: 701
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Greg, thank you for your kind words.
Yes, I saw the graphs too and I made a sincere effort to stay objective while analyzing the two cars (ie. not allow the graphs to influence my thinking). But there you have it, my analysis meshes with what one would expect from the graphs. As we say in the stock market, the chart never lies.
Sorry, but I have no readily available means of measuring HP. I'm sure that, given Porsche's history of understatement, 381 is low.
Regarding SC, I wonder if it may in fact have less of an impact with the X51. Because the X51 already has a reprogrammed ECU which very likely improves throttle reponse. That's purely speculation though and I'd really like to drive an X51 with SC to see. The non-SC throttle reponse of the X51 did feel somewhat more direct than in the non-X51 Carrera S with SC off. Or maybe that was just the additional torque I was feeling.
I'm very much hoping one of the Club Coupe guys can comment on the impact of the SC's sport mode on throttle response in an X51 equipped Carrera.
The sport shfter is nice but so is the stock shifter. I'm in no hurry, yet, to do the upgrade. It might be something I do for fun at some point though.
The redline on my tach reads 7,200. I do not yet know if I can exceed that as I'm still breaking her in. I'll have to get back to you on this.
Yes, I saw the graphs too and I made a sincere effort to stay objective while analyzing the two cars (ie. not allow the graphs to influence my thinking). But there you have it, my analysis meshes with what one would expect from the graphs. As we say in the stock market, the chart never lies.
Sorry, but I have no readily available means of measuring HP. I'm sure that, given Porsche's history of understatement, 381 is low.
Regarding SC, I wonder if it may in fact have less of an impact with the X51. Because the X51 already has a reprogrammed ECU which very likely improves throttle reponse. That's purely speculation though and I'd really like to drive an X51 with SC to see. The non-SC throttle reponse of the X51 did feel somewhat more direct than in the non-X51 Carrera S with SC off. Or maybe that was just the additional torque I was feeling.
I'm very much hoping one of the Club Coupe guys can comment on the impact of the SC's sport mode on throttle response in an X51 equipped Carrera.
The sport shfter is nice but so is the stock shifter. I'm in no hurry, yet, to do the upgrade. It might be something I do for fun at some point though.
The redline on my tach reads 7,200. I do not yet know if I can exceed that as I'm still breaking her in. I'll have to get back to you on this.
10-25-2005, 02:48 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 830
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nice analysis....i havent the pleasure of driving a x51 yet, but i would be affraid it would be a 17k dollar test drive!!!!! the hp, torque curve shows that the 2 cars are almost identical in hp and torque between 2500 and 4500 rpm...the x51 advantage is above and below this rpm range......for the coupe that i want, it would take the msrp well over 100k....ouch!!!!!!!!i wish porsche had made the 997 with 355hp and the s with 381, all for the same price!!!!!!! of course they didnt have to, the cars are great sports with out the huge hp......