boqueron

I am planing to install H&R sway bar(s) to my TT. My ONLY purpose is to reduce understeer ( or to increase oversteer ) mainly when tracking but keeping a safe and reasonably confortable street car . I understand that this balance ( under/oversteer) is a ratio between front and rear stifness ( in case of sway bars as one of the possible variables ). Would I need the two bars ? Would it be enough to put a stiffer setting in the H&R back sway keeping the original in the front ? And secondly, what should be the setting(s) ? My present suspension is a ROW and I plan to install - if I feel that I need it after the sway bars - PSS9 or Motons. ( BTW I want to be able togradually increase/decrease the oversteer ....)

Could you please help me with your experience...

Harry,

Kiko

Hola Boqueron:

I suggest you do what I did, installing the rear GT2 sway bar because its adjustable, cheap (150€), lighter than H&R's and mainly because that all it takes with the help of good tyre pressure set up and -1º10' (GT2 set up - max allowed by OEM set up) to dial out 90% of the understeer and leave the 10% for safety reasons still giving you the option of oversteering by using the right foot... I've been where you're standing now and after many hours of reseach on the forums thats whats what I did and I'm very happy with it, if you're interested I'll give you my alignmente set up (GT2), my tire pressures and sway bar settings.

boqueron

Thanks Kiko, nice to get a good advise from a neighbour.. . I was reasonably happy with my settings ( stock ) until I tried two weeks ago a 997 "s" chrono at the Jarama track... The 997 was light, you could inscribe the front easily in the corners. Much easier- and fun - ( sorry to admit it, as a TT "aficionado" ) to drive if you are prepared and ready to correct the oversteer . Obviously we are talking about a relatively short track with narrow corners. This is why I want to be able to modify the set up,depending on the track. Your approach seems very practical, I will probably follow your advise. Specially if you feel safe with it on the roads....Let's see if there is any other suggestion at the forum.

BTW ¿Do you ever come to Spain to track ?

boqueron

Kiko, any special change with the GT2 way bar ? do you need to change the drop links ?

Kiko

Thats's the point, with the GT2/3 rear bar the fitment is straight forward, no need for drop links whatsoever. The GT2/3 on the 3rd stiffest is as stiff as OEM and I use it on the 2nd stiffest which makes the car roll even and helps dialing out the excessive understeer with the added bonus of making the car feel more solid. For track use you can go for one further hole (1st and stiffest) achieving even better balance. For the road depending on tyres, use around 33/38 to 34/40 psi and all of this together with a good alignment set up (I chose a similar set up to the GT2) with 1º10' and you got your self a mean handling machine. If this is not enough, fit the 235/40 18 in the front and stiffen the rear shocks after this you'll probably be complaining about OVERsteer and not UNDERsteer. Please keep in mind that I also got a RoW Turbo and I tried everything I just wrote on my own car on the road and in Braga Circuit (North of Portugal), I'm not just shooting out in the air something I read although I spent dozens of hours searching for everything that had been written about this and Jean (My Porsche guru) also gave me some really important pointers. Please also keep in mind that this is a compromise for the road since I drive my car 95% of the time on the road. You will feel the car very neutral on the road but slight understeer on the track which can be easily overcome but keeping the car on the safe side.

(Sorry for the long post but I wish somoene said this to me when I was where you're standing).

boqueron

Kiko, thanks once again. I do appreciate your efforts and advise ! I am the one that has been reading lots of threads about suspension but did not dare to touch anything before having understood the behaviour of the car and what I really intended to do with it...I have finally decided that -for me - it has to keep the basic characteristics of the TT: a confortable GT car that can - more than reasonably - perform in a track. As a mater of fact I plan to buy a 944 Turbo or a 968 cs only for tracking and keep the TT for tourism and occasional trak days. I have also read many Jean threads and found that he surely should know ( after so many miles with his TT ) what he is talking about. I will try with the GT2 sway bar. Sorry, but I surely will need to ask you one or two questions in the near future...

Brokenleg

Kiko, read this post last week and decided to dig out my old 996 H&R sways to see if the rear was usable on the tubo. Yes, the rear is the same bend as the turbo, not sure of the size H&R recommends for the turbo (i think the 996 is a 24 mm). Took the 15 minutes to bolt it up and put it on the middle hole for stiffness. And you are 100% right. magically the under steer has evaporated. My car is suspension stock except for the rear bar. The car now feels neutral at slower speed corners and slightly under steer at high speed corners. This mod just saved me from going down the expensive route I did with my 996 by dong a full suspension swap. This is all I need for road handling in the hills. Thanks for posting last week.

Kiko

Brokenleg,

I'm glad I saved you some money. As a part time racing driver and instructor I must say the slight understeer at high speed long sweepers is VERY important safety-wise to keep the car with predictable handling at the limit and easy to control if something unexpected happens at mid corner like water, other cars, etc. Still, this set up should be good enough for you to modulate oversteer with your right foot.
At track though, the understeer will be even more noticeable and setting the car with some mild negative camber will certainly help the handling and tyre wear, I seriously advise you to do this for road and I consider this a MUST if you track the car.

03-turbo911

Yup, your're right, it is an essential mod. I had my GT2/3 rear sway bar and hardened motor mounts put on the car before i took delivery of it.

Brokenleg

I have read about the hard motor mounts. What are the benefits? draw backs? Is it the increased stiffness in the rear (alost negilable at this point) that they are a possible benefit?

Kiko, I have almost burned through the rear Yokos, I will have some neg camber put in with the tire change. thank you