mike_la_jolla

This is long story that ends badly: I need to get a new transmission for my 2003 996TT X50 and it will run $12k+. Porsche is refusing to cover under warranty by claiming ‘abusive driving’. I would like to thank the southern California Porsche Representative, Ian Richie, for his ‘claim’ that I ‘abused’ my car and using this reason to deny warranty coverage for this repair. Mr. Richie has virtually assured that this will be my last Porsche. Mr. Richie also seems to be wholly ignorant of the amount of information available on the Internet – He hasn’t heard of any ‘transmission failures’ in Southern California for X50’s. I suggest he learn how to do the ‘search' function in Rennlist. He might learn something.

This is my third one Porsche (1999 996, 2002 996TT, 2003 996TT x50) and I have liked the brand. I’ll move to Lamborgini or Ferarri for my next car, or get a Civic as a daily driver and have a separate track car.

This 2003 996TT x50 was intended as a holdover until the 997TT was available in the second model year. Porsches, in general, should not be bought in the first model year. This I learned the hard way with my first Porsche, the ’99 996. I still have tinnitus from the various internal squeaks. As best I can determine, Lambo and Ferrari back up their products and don’t insult the owners when their products fail under normal use. I cannot make this statement about Porsche. Clearly something is wrong with the X50 transmissions. The problem I have seems to be related to the ‘2nd gear popping out’ thing, expect my transmission manifested this problem differently so I didn’t realize the problem existed until I couldn’t shift into third. I can identify at least a dozen other X50’s that have needed transmission replacements.

I do track the car and admitted this to Porsche. This car has been tracked about once every two months. I think I have been to the track 5-6 times with this car. There were some REV2 violations, although I think they occurred after the transmission refused to allow shifting into third gear and I accidentally went into second. Porsche claims there were 30 such violations, but I have since learned that a single event could cause all 30. This is what Mr. Richie is using to deny warranty service.

1999Porsche911

Sorry for your woes. However, you can't generalize first year cars. I have a March 1998 build 996 and I still have a perfect engine and transmission and I DO ABUSE my car. Most people I know that have a 1999 996 (except for those bought at Ford Dealerships) have been very happy with their cars with only minor problems.

Kevin

If you have to pay to get your gearbox fixed there are many independant shops that can fix your gearbox for much less. I think that we are seeing Porsche stand..

Red9

Kevin, what do you think the cause is likely to be?( of the gearbox itself)

markski

here we go again... did u have an after market short shifter....

ltc

Sorry to hear about your problem.

PCNA's posturing is solely based on:
1. your admission of track driving (still a contentious issue, legally and historically with Porsche and their owners). Not sure exactly what the current wording is in their owner's manuals/documentation.
2. multiple type 2 over revs.
I am unfamiliar with the legal/arbitration process in CA, but I would suspect you would be facing an uphill battle should you chose to challenge PCNA.

If you do chose to file suit against PCNA over a vehicle issue, their current strategy is to simply prolong the legal process, costing you far in excess of the cost of the original claim/item/vehicle in the hopes that you drop the case (no, don't ask me how I know or how much I've spent on legal fees)
Yes, this IS the 'new' PAG/PCNA....profits supercede all other priorities....buying cars back/fixing expensive items are the exception rather than the rule.

A fellow 996TT X50 board member, tkerrmd, recently had his transmission repaired/rebuilt, perhaps you could contact him for costs/details.

Oak

all it takes is one mis-shift to ruin the synchros for good. if you have multiple type 2 over revs on your ecu I would think that's a reasonable reason for warranty denial especially after admitting frequently tracking on a regular basis. techncially, I doubt you would be treated any different if it was a Fcar or Lambo.

Kevin

It really isn't the syncros, but the actual dog teeth that if one does not fully engage 2nd gear, and plant the gear correctly. The dog teeth will get rolled/worn off. It is down hill from there and it will require more effort to jamb the gear in place.. The transmission design has been around since the mid '80's.. There are some very good independant shops that can fix these gear boxes.. Look at the bright side, if you are tracking your car, you can re-gear your box for about the same money as Porsche wants to fix it..

tkerrmd

Mike, unfortunately, I had near the EXACT same experience with my car and the outcome. After learning from my battle several things....1. saying you tracked the car immediately kills your fight and accuses you of car abuse (I dont agree with this stuff, just reporting).....2. The over rev error proves it to Porsche, again, no contest you loose....3. these trannies can be rebuilt way better (ie steel syncros, ect) for way cheaper.....WAY CHEAPER than a "new tranny"
Brian Copans THE BEST IN THE COUNTRY (513-779-3302) quoted me about 3k from the time he receives it and sends it back (obviously the removal and install is on you) can also try Roger Brown at Powerhaus 303-442-4327. I have talked to both of these guys (alot) and both took alot of time with me and were very nice and I learned alot. Call them both.

Bottom line, get your tranny rebuilt with steel syncros, I paid the dealer 5k total for the entire job (also ask dealer for good faith deal or some decreased cost, mine knocked off 15%).

Stick with THAT car and model I still think after all was said and done love my car and would not have any other!! Dont tell people you track the car ever.

ps...great time to upgrade your clutch(todays problem is tomorrows upgrade) and the labor on this is basically free since tranny is out!

Call me if you need more advice or therapy........cell 813-731-7493

good luck

tom

paneraiwatches

First mistake was admitting tracking. If you tell them you race the car the first place they will go is the ECU. Once they find type II over revs, kiss your warranty goodbye. In the end you really can not hold PCNA responsible for a missed shift, depending on how bad the missed shift was your super lucky the only thing that is toast is your tranny. Goodluck with PCNA, you might want to try another dealer.

oscar94

Will some one explain exactly what "type II over revs" are ?

TIA

ltc

A type 2 over rev is a mechanically driven engine RPM over rev. For example if you shift from 5th down to 1st (for argument sake) you will MECHANICALLY force the engine to over rev; the ECU is powerless to prevent it by any means (killing fuel and/or spark). Very bad for engine mechanics, hence PCNA/PAG having a bug up their butt about them.

A type 1 over rev is an engine driven RPM over rev terminating in the ECU engaging the rev limiter (killing fuel and/or spark) in order to prevent further engine RPM. This is what you get if you floor it from a standing start and are not quick enough on the 1-2 shift; you end up in the rev limiter. No damage done to the engine whatsoever, since THAT's what the ECU rev limiter is for.

If you are ever at the Porsche factory in Zuffenhausen, you will see the engines go straight into the dyno cell right after assembly and run into the rev limiter and stay there. Very cool stuff to watch.

KPG

Is the type 2 over rev related to this trans issue or is it just another factor in PCNA's decision to deny the claim. In and of itself the type 2 would not cause a trans failure, would it ? Kevin

Kevin

Yes and no, grey area.. You see it is basically a missed shift.. Did you end up slamming it into the lower gear "ala" second gear.. And in the process stripping off the dog teeth?? Only the driver would know... However, the type two over rev can float your valve train, and you could risk a more expensive repair on your engine vs the trans. It must be also stated that you can also get a Type 1 over Rev with a higher than stock Rev limiter when using aftermarket programming.. I know that FVD and Protomotive uses and set higher limits..

I will also go on record that I feel that the heavy 28lbs dual mass flywheel is causing some of these missed shifts and notchy engagements.. With a lightweight flywheel you can precisely match your RPM to shift.. The tranny also reacts quicker, dog teeth align quicker.. Faster and smoother shifts..

Premier Motorsp

I have a suspicion that most of these popping out of gear problems are not caused by abuse. I would like to confirm this. If someone sends me a trans with this problem I will repair at my cost.

Chris Cervelli
Premier Motorsports