poulett

After extensive research I have put the following facts together which should cure potential & actual 996, boxster & 997 purchasers concerns regarding the infamous RMS issue.

The RMS facts: -

The Chance of experiencing RMS Failure:-

996,997 & Boxster owners have an approx. 35% chance of suffering RMS (rear main seal) failure (40% Reenlist poll, 30% PCGB Survey + misc other evidence).

An unlucky 5% of owners will require more than one RMS replacement.


The Symptoms:-

In the vast majority of cases an RMS failure will mean a small but noticeable sweating of oil & possibly a small film of oil will be seen when the car is on the ramps or worst case scenario a few drips will appear on the garage floor.


The potential & actual results of an RMS failure:-

Oil spots on your garage floor.

In theory the clutch could be contaminated with dripping oil although in practise there are no (or very, very, very few) reported cases of this ever happening..

There are no other problems associated with having a failing RMS, it has never, repeat never caused engine failure.


The cause:-

Many, many theories but no actual evidence, I would imagine Porsche’s silence on the issue means they don’t even know or they would have cured it by now.


The Solution:-

The very rich & very unlucky owner that has a carpeted garage & had an RMS failure outside of warranty can get it replaced for approx £700, $1,000.

The very unlucky owner that does not have a carpeted garage or more money than sense can wait until the clutch needs replacing at which time a new RMS can be installed for the price of the seal (£$ no money)

60% of owners will never experience the problem.

The vast majority of the 40% of owners that have experienced RMS failure have had it replaced under warranty & have never experienced the problem again.

The unlucky 5% that have had multiple RMS failures have had their engines replaced if they live in the USA “for a very small oil leek !”, where as Porsche UK seems to think their UK customers are less likely to have carpeted garages & therefore can live with a small oil leek.


I must surely being missing something, the RMS issue very nearly put me off buying a 996 & I am sure it is one of the causes for the depreciation experienced on these cars.
Thank you internet RMS hysteria, you have has saved us second hand Porsche owners a fortune.

boolala

"A carpeted garage"?

Actually I prefer to drive on an area rug--preferably the expensive oriental variety.

Boy will I be pissed if my car gets an RMS leak.

1AS

Not to bust your bubble, but I personally haven't seen or heard about a carpeted garage during my life, all of which has been in the US. We probably get somewhat better coverage under warranty because we are a litigenous society.
I'm not sure polls give an unbiased answer, since those responding are more likely to have suffered the bad experience.
However, even half that failure rate is unacceptable. Do you think 1% of Toyotas have RMS leaks? I don't. Today, I doubt that Kia's do.
Porsche certainly knows the answer. It is either bad engineering, bad manufacture, or both. However, they have neatly finessed the problem, and appear to have escaped the consequences.
If 1 in 20 have recurrent RMS leaks (and that seems high), wouldn't you consider that a significant flaw in any car? Overall Porsche quality has been hit by the Cayanne, but otherwise it's been excellent. The RMS is an aberration, but an annoying one.AS

gpjli2

After RMS maybe they'll fix the clock

The B

Hello Rennlister's! This is my first post, I have been lurking around for awhile and enjoy the info posted. This thread opened up an area where I have something of value to add.

I am "that guy"! I purchased by new 997S on 12/07/04. (Vin#WPoAB29995S741075). I have come to the same conclussion as the initial post: buy an outstanding used p-car, there are lots of them out there.

I think that one will still end up driving a Porsche even after the RMS issue is on the table.

RMS Replaced: 01/29/05, 02/14/05 and on 06/23/05. Am I the winner of the contest?

I came to my conclusion in a different sort of way...much more emotional I admit. Believe me, I was not impressed that my car had to spend over 1 month in the dealership getting repairs while I drove around a "Ford Tempo with leather" as a loaner in the first 7 mos. of ownership.

Keep in mind I have still experienced the "typical" 'Check Engine Light' fix and the exhaust tip replacement.

About any Corporate Porsche assistance: DON'T count on it, it is absolutly the worst part of my customer experience. I relocated from West to East coast in 2005, I delt with 3 are managers of the Corporate Porsche, and In the interest of not going off on a petty tangent and off my subject, I will leave that alone by saying; shocking amount of pretention and ego with lack of empathy for an unhappy customer. That leads me to believe that the RMS issue is really VERY COMMON.

So, I went shopping...lots of great automobiles to look at, we know all the "competition" in the 911 price and performance range. However, at the end of the day to get a car that is true sports car with the performance numbers and feel it has for @ 90k, in my opinion there are no competitors.

Does anyone remember the article in a major magazine comparing the Corvette to the 997S? One of the conclussion remarks was something to the effect of: A person could have two Corvettes for the price of one 997S. I would argue that the same can be said for the 997S.

First I should calrify; I had an M3 and I wanted to 'move up' to a 911, the new corvette is good looking and very fast however let's just say it is not my style. If fast was it for me I know teenagers with NOS in the Mitsubishi that will embarrase anything on the piublic streets.

So, (for me) I am left with: a gently used F-360, Gallardo, Austin DB9, SL65. All others I looked at the performance numbers and feel were WAY behind the 997S.

So, I submit fro the sake of conversation: buy 2 997S's. Keep one on hand to drive when the other is in the shop for "something"...you will spend around 180K for the two, which is 1 gallardo, good 360, DB9 or SL 65. The SL55 and Vantage are not real 997S competitors in my opinion.

No other car I have driven has the ability to make my arm hairs stand on end! For that, for now Porsche wins.

I gotta go drive now...

P.S. I have outdoor carpet in my garage due to the time that I spend there...I love cars.

Holli82

I am ashamed to say that I neglected to put carpet in my garage. I knew there was something I would forget to do before my car arrived.

PogueMoHone

Anyone else notice that there was something "chicken" about that post?

MrBonus

I'd like to see the source of your "extensive research" and "facts" from this scientific study you've conducted.

fast1

About any Corporate Porsche assistance: DON'T count on it, it is absolutly the worst part of my customer experience. I relocated from West to East coast in 2005, I delt with 3 are managers of the Corporate Porsche, and In the interest of not going off on a petty tangent and off my subject, I will leave that alone by saying; shocking amount of pretention and ego with lack of empathy for an unhappy customer. That leads me to believe that the RMS issue is really VERY COMMON.

As someone who bought his first 911 in 1970, let me tell you that it wasn't always that way. Back then Porsche would bend over backwards to keep their customers happy. I can still remember having some work done to my 911 when it was well past the warranty expiration. When I saw the repair bill I was surprised to find that there was only a labor charge. Porsche provided the parts at no charge. It was an extraordinary experience being treated so well since all of my prior experiences were with Ford and Chevy, and their arrogance and ineptitude knew no bounds.

I haven't had any experience with corporate Porsche in the last ten years, but it saddens me to hear you report that they are now no better than the other auto manufacturers because Porsche use to be something very special.

fast1

Unless he's with PCNA, he'll be hard pressed to provide you significant data. They have all the data and they ain't sharing.

MMD

That 35% seems about right. Though I heard "officialy" it was 25%.

Getting a new seal for a us$1000 (as you report) is pretty cheap. I mean there's no was that should qualify as a fortune. It's a drop in the bucket for these cars considering my CD/PCM repair cost us$2500 (under warrenty though).

The GOOD news is after the repair the issue is most likely solved.

texas911

hmmm, why lump 997s in your sampling with the 996. Hardly anyone posts about RMS on the 997 board. I doubt the 40% figure. That's 4 out of 10 posters? We'd definitely see more posts about it.

MMD

I think because it's the same basic engine and same manufacturing and machining procedures that result in leaks.

The B

I haven't had any experience with corporate Porsche in the last ten years, but it saddens me to hear you report that they are now no better than the other auto manufacturers because Porsche use to be something very special.

To FAST1: When I say Corporate Porsche, I mean the non-dealership individuals. The area managers that oversee or service the dealership from Corporate Porsche.

I have had experiences at Scottsdale, Las Vegas and Tampa dealerships and they were all excellent which is the key to daily interaction. The dealerships are highly accomodative and usually throw in some "freebees".

JohnnyBahamas

The Porsche tech who replaced the RMS on my '05 C2S ( it would drip exactly TWO drops after a long drive ) explained to me very clearly that it is simply a composite rubber/fabric seal between two perfectly machined pieces of metal. If the seal was nicked, bent, creased, smashed, over torqued, under torqued, improperly made, etc. it MAY leak oil. What more is there to be calmed about... primary, empirical data is best and this tech had the data.

The RMS is not a head gasket. Chill and drive like you stole it.

Oh, and my experience with stand alone Porsche dealerships can not have been better. Clean, uncrowded facility, loaner PORSCHE, free phone use and beverages, Speed channel on a plasma TV, hot, socially outgoing young woman at the front desk, and a warehouse sized room full of some of the worlds best cars. Heck, I'd go there every day.