theiceman

don't be too hard on yourself reg you did a great days woork , and you do get more swing with it removed..

glenncof

Here's what I did on 1985 911;

911 Upgrade – turbo tie rods (1969-1989)

Generally I don’t replace anything until necessary. I came across this project prior to replacing struts which may require alignment.

1985 Porsche 911 -155K miles, one tie rod end replaced at 36K, other was factory

Note: Stock tie rods have rubber bushings and these were 19 years old.

Parts ordered here: http://www.mainelycustombydesign.com...suspension.htm
P/N: 930 347 031 01
Cost w/shipping: $118

ASSUMING your front end alignment is good, I followed this procedure to avoid re-alignment. First note the position of your steering wheel while driving straight. You will match the length on new rod to old rod one side at a time.

1) Raise vehicle on both sides, I use 4x4 wood blocks as stands
2) Remove one wheel.
3) Remove rod end from steering arm. I used bottle jack and hammer.
4) Remove skidpan (4 bolts) but not anti-sway bar.
5) Remove spring/band around “outer” portion of boot with small screwdriver. This plate locks the rod to the rack/pinion assembly. Mark position of locking plate on threads with white touch-up paint.
6) Slacken this plate. This is VERY IMPORTANT as this plate acts as a locking nut on inner tie rod end. I used small pipe wrench set to 1 ¾”.
7) Unscrew tie rod (by hand).
8) Remove old boot but leave inner spring/band on rack/pinion for reuse.
9) Match new rod to old one (see below)**
10) Install new rod using high strength (Permatex red) Locktite. Tighten with vice grips.
11) Install boot on rack/pinion.
12) Rotate the rod assembly to get alignment between tie rod end and steering arm. Install tie rod end into arm, tighten, and install cotter pin.
13) Tighten a plastic strap (not provided) around outer portion of boot.
14) Replace skidpan bolts without skidpan.
15) Take a short test drive. If the angle of your steering wheel changed there was a error that must be corrected. (( FYI - On one side I made an ¼” error (4 turns) which caused a shift of about 40 degrees on the steering wheel. I did not mark locking plate position but estimated from the rust.))
16) If all is well, replace second side with skidpan.

** Matching new rod length to old one
a) Lay old & new rod (w/o boot) next to each other and angle new rod (including special spacer) to match old.
b) Carefully measure each one and adjust new until matching old. The key will be to get the locking plate to the original position, I used the rust on threads. ((My final driver side was 12 ¼” and other was 12” exact, for reference.))
c) Tighten locking nut by hand, and don’t move it during next operation.
d) Remove tie rod end, slip on new boot, and replace end. ((It is much easier to match length without boot in place.))
e) Tighten locking nut on tie rod end.
f) Lay old/new rods side by side and do a final check on the length of new rod. Don’t forget to include the special spacer/washer on new rod.


Results: Steering wheel straight and no drift at highway speeds. Steering feels more precise at slower speeds and has less vibration issues at higher.

Celle

Changed my tie rods to Turbo rods a couple of months ago. It's not an easy job for a DIY kinda guy like me.

The good thing about it was that I found out that I gotta multiply all the project times in Wayne Dempsey's book "101 projects for your 911" by two...

BTW, that book is a great help to us DIY-ers.

afinepoint

Alignment in progess. I think I got it close.

Is there really such a thing as a four wheel alignment for a two wheel drive car? I know rear suspension angle for the trailing arm can be adjusted but the wheels?

In any case the dealership states they do four wheels. No time or desire to debate the point with them especially since they worked my in today.

Got to buy that book.

Reg

theiceman

Oh yeah there is 4 wheel allignment , caster camber and toe, . although I think the rear caster is fixed. The front adjustments are the tie rods and if you look in your front trunk at the top of the strut tower under all the black guck is the camber and caster adjustments.

The rear adjustments ou can see on the ear spring plate, one for toe and one for camber and two lock nuts. Remember this is a racing car after all.

PS Celle , if you only had to double the time you are doing well. I would be amazed if I could replace rusted on heat exchangers , in only 4 hours...

afinepoint

Alignment done. Per service rep toe-in is perfect but right front camber is a little out. It is adjusted as far as possible. To correct this suspension parts will require replacing. Suggestion is control arm first then strut tower.
The camber will not affect performance at the track. Only long term tire wear. Per him this problem is not uncommon for the older Porsches.

I still hope to replace the pads. Then bleed brakes. The old rotors have a lip at the outer edge from wear. I dislike the fact that it may cut into new (expensive) racing pads.

Reg

Celle

BTW guys, the only advice I didn't follow from Wayne's book, and I see glenncof did it too, is to use locktite on the new rod ends. Simply because I didn't have it at hand at 02.00 at night... And the only shops open at night in this country, are liquor stores

I did tighten as good as I could with vise grips, which wasn't easy, as there isn't much room.

Is this a really bad thing, I wonder? Is there a chance that they will get loose (and me in serious trouble) after a while?

afinepoint

Celle,

I don't think you have commited an automotive cardinal sin. The loctite is a good idea since steering is very important but also because the tie/steering rack interface is covered and in an inaccessible place making routine inspection unlikely. How many of us are really going to pop those inner spring clamps off again just to take a peak? -Not likely.

SmartRacing products, the manufacturer of my tie rod combo wrench does add to use the blue loctite but warns of overtorquing.

The use of a fairly low torque value and medium strength loctite tells me you will be OK. Added to this the Haynes manual states only to lubricate threads with anti-sieze.

All reference to loctite has been non-bolded type, and mentioned as a statement not a caution or warning.

Keep tabs on the alignment for a year or two and have the tech let you know excactly what adjustment was made. You are looking for toe in adjustment only. Repeated adjustment to pull the wheel back in may be signs of a tie rod drifting. After a year or so without a pattern I wouldn't worry about it. Corrosion will now have substituted for the thread locker.

Reg

theiceman

Good points above also keep in mind the rod has to turn to unscrew itself, and that ball and socket is pretty darn tight.. i think you'll be fine ... nut and bolts held together fine before loctite was invented..

SeattlePorsche

Celle, I don't know, I don't think so. I have read posts where a p-mechanic found out the owner didn't use loctite, and, the post said, "scolded" the owner and removed the tie rod and loctited it. You probably really shouldn't get corrosion in there. When I removed my 25 year old tie rods there was no corrosion, but you could see the loctite.

But I am not a mechanic, so if I were you Celle, I would ask someone, or maybe even better just peel back the boot, unscrew your rod and drip some loctite in there. If you think about it, it wouldn't change your toe setting at all. I am conservative by nature, I'm a cardiologist, so that's what I do. But a steering failure frightened me enough to change out my ball joints.

Just giving you the alternative point of view.

Celle

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I felt pretty reassured after reading afinepoint and theiceman, but reading SeattlePorsche now got me worrying again...

Any other views on this?

I don't want to have a steering failure when doing xxx MPH, so I guess it's better to get that locktite in there...

r911

SRP says to put it there, so it is a good practice. "views" are only worth their expertise... You might check with Steve Weiner and/or Pete Z.

If it was really critical, then P AG would have put out a TSB on it. So, I wouldn't tear something apart again to redo it w/o the Loctite. Blue Loctite is not very strong anyway.

Celle

Thanks, Randy.

Peter, Steve, are you out there...?

afinepoint

Rotors and pads changed. 6 hours. Those front bearing caps are something special. In case it may help I got them off by clamping channel locks to the cap with vise grips. Then tapping with a dead blow hammer. Rotate 180° tap, 180° tap and so on. That was the longest part of the evolution. Plus doing it this way the pliers only marred two spots on the cover. I did the fronts first so the rear was a nice present. Amazing two small screws hold them in place -besides the wheel lugs.

Now for the fun part. Break-in. Guess what I'm taking to work tomorrow? Work is 42 miles each way - highway and back roads.

Celle again don't feel bad. I was installing the last caliper when I realized I had forgotten to use any anti-sieze on the pads. Oh well.

Brake lines are definitely post DE. Don't want to push my luck.

Thanks all for your help. I'll post how things went at VIR.

Reg