84_Carrera

So, I've finally figured it's time to stop putting off the valve adjustment, and do the tune-up. I have my Pelican parts (exc. wires), my 101 projects, my Bentley, my Pelican how-to on the adjustment printed out, feeler gauge tool, new cap, rotor, plugs, cover gasket kit w/ nuts etc., already had turbo covers on there, new O2 sensor, new fuel filter, oil filter, the works.

What I don't have is a Z1 mark on the pulley.

I have (3) marks at 120 deg. I had a thin cap inside the distributor cap under the rotor covering the ID mark for Cyl 1, but did find the mark there. Back on the crank, one of the (3) 120 deg. marks has another mark with it, not at ~5 deg. off, but more like 10-15 deg. off. There is a square on the bottom / inside bowl of the pulley (looking at it from the top, downward), which corresponds to 180 deg. from the mark with the extra mark. So, I'm assuming the FIRST mark of the two is "Z1", as it lines up with the square on the opposite side of the pulley, and the other mark to the right of it is a secondary timing mark.

Car's an 84 Carrera, has AC.

BTW Pete, all the studs / nuts on the inside are intact, nothing floating around in there where the dealer "suspected" a broken head stud.

Peter Zimmermann

Fred: I had a hunch those head studs were OK.

Regarding the Z1 mark, the "Z1" is usually stamped on the face of the pulley. If you're on Z1 the other two marks (at 120 degrees) will be equi-distant to the left and right sides. You know if you're on cyl #1, to start the process, when the firing tip of the rotor points to the mark on the distributor housing. Have fun doing the adjustment!
Pete

84_Carrera

Well, I have to dive back in there, as I have a noisy valve (sounds like #3 intake).

I'd taken off the cat bypass to allow for easier lower cover access & put some better stainless hardware in there, cleaned up the HeetSheets, and while reinstalling discovered that all of the 'glass packing in the new M&K muffler is MIA, apparently completely blown out (can see through the center tubing now, where I formerly saw white packing). I also found a chunk of welded metal rattling around in there, along with a ton of sandy grit, which scares the crap out of me. Since I'm running a bypass, I know it's not catalyst.

Getting the plugs out is a trip. I found that the PO had put in Bosch Platinum +4's, all running lean from the look of things. One (#1) had spooge on it, like oil that had leaked on the plug & collected dirt. I replaced with the normal copper Bosch plugs Pelican sent me.

Interesting thing Pete - the oil leak looks worse actually, with Cyl 6 now being "wet", but not caked like #4 is. I'm running 20/50 Dino, but IIRC I did run Syntec over the winter. I'm also finding evidence of condensation in the oil tank drain plug (milky caramel). Commute is approx. 25-30 minutes, so the car does get warmed up.

So, if I'm diving back in there, can I assume the cover gasket(s) will need to be replaced since they've been compressed & heat-cycled? I have the green & silicone / gray kit from Pelican.

Thanks for all the help & info 'Listers!

rscredon

Keep us posted on your progress Fred. I'm finding this thread particularly interesting as I am contemplating doing this project myself. I think I'm up to the task, but I am scared to death of screwing something up.

Rich

g-50cab

If you don't already - I'd recommend buying the bently manual and Wayne's engine rebuild book - both helpful

Christien

Like Peter said, if you can't find Z1, use the distributor notch to find TDC. I've seen pictures of 2 types of distributor rotors, so I was a bit confused at first. The one in the valve adjust article in 101 Projects didn't look like mine. This one does, and is pointing at the notch:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...just_pic16.jpg

When the distributor's pointing to the notch and you've got one of the equi-distant lines (i.e. every 120 degrees) lined up to the notch on the fan housing, you know you're at tdc for #1. I took a yellow pencil crayon and made a big fat mark on mine, to make finding it easier. Remember that for the pairs of lines 5 degrees apart, the SECOND one (as you rotate clockwise) will be z1/tdc. The first one is for 5 degrees advance.

84_Carrera

Rich -
It's absolutely something you can do, just take your time, ID what you need to (like what small bolt goes where on the wire looms, etc). The write-up on Pelican is pretty decent, and so long as you put things back where you found them, you'll be ok.

On my 84, I removed the black snorkel on the driver's side for easier access. My airbox has been replaced with a cone, making access on the pass. side much easier. AC hoses DO get in the way over there, I completely removed the compressor from the base & set on top of the intake plenum to remove that from the equation on that side.

In no order...

Plug removal: I used a deep 13/16" socket (no capture rubber, unfortunately), with a 3" extension & a 1" extension. This allowed pulling apart to shorten the length as I pulled the plug out. All but #5 came out with careful balancing, #5 was a SOB & fell out, requiring a magnet to grab it. Cyl. #6 was very tough getting the socket into & out of, felt like there was something blocking entry into the plug well. I anti-seized the plugs (any time you're working with aluminum not a bad idea). Plugs were gapped to ~.030 as rec'd (.028 listed for mine per the owner's manual). I use a Jacobs pliers-type gapper (http://static.summitracing.com/globa...ac-380700.jpg).

Valves:
Drain the oil. with the car's butt end up in the air, the last bit of oil will drain from the bottom covers toward the front of the car, place can under accordingly & remove covers slowly. Tops came off cleanly. Finding the TDC id mark for cyl 1 was not so bad even with the Z1 issue on mine (with the covers off & using the "rocker rattle" tip; rockers will have a tiny bit of play & will wiggle - this is spelled out on the Pelican write-up). Adjustment I found to be tricky, getting the "feel" for the feeler gauge resistance is experience from what I'm reading / hearing, etc.; on the SHO, we use round shims to adjust the gap; factory setting's ±.002", I gap to nominal with no tolerance (I have about 600 shims in stock so this is easier to do). With the 911, it SOUNDS like you have ±.0005 or so before you have issues - too loose, and you have valve noise, too tight & the valve won't seal completely (if I understand correctly). Unlike the cars I'm used to doing adjustments on, you have one & only 1 gauge size, and you have to judge how much resistance is on the gauge as you remove (anyone feel free to jump in on this assessment!). I found making the rocker wiggle 1st before trying to slide in the gauge was helpful, but I was not able to get the gauge in on probably half of the valves. I loosened the nut, backed off the screw, inserted the gauge, hand-tightened the screw until it was close, then went back in with the (SHORT!) screwdriver & 13mm 12-point closed end wrench. There probably isn't enough room to use a 6-point closed end, FWIW. I bought extra gauge inserts just in case, and ended up bending the gauge handle in the bench vise to make it 90° instead of angled as rec'd (made it look like the pictures on the write-up, which helps immensely).

O2 Sensor:
Changing the O2 is a piece of cake compared to the head temp sensor I did last year. Remove the 2 connections by the fuel filter, snake wiring down through the floor. Under the car, the shield on mine is snapped in place; pull off, use the 22mm wrench (or O2 socket) to loosen, spin it off. Hardest part of the job: Paying an arm & a leg for an '84 sensor. From memory, Pelican matched pricing when I showed them RockAuto's pricing for the Bosch part last year, it appears they have adjusted the pricing down in their catalog as well now ($145).

Fuel Filter:
Easy Job. Catching the runout of fuel is the hardest part, aside from lack of elbow room. Since I changed the filter last year, it was easier for me to remove than back then.

VC's:
6 lb-ft is tough to nail down though - there's little room in there for torque wrench. I do some Taurus SHO-specific work on the side, so I'm a little more confident getting torque ranges when I need to. I used a 1/4" drive ratchet & short socket to do the nylock caps, started on the bottom covers where I would guesstimate 4 lb-ft & 6 lb-ft & compare using the torque wrench to get a feel for it. I had to watch for some oxidation on the VC studs, which will affect the resistance some. So far, no leaks at the covers.

Cap & Rotor: Other than the plug wires being superglued to the distributor cap, changing the cap & rotor is about a 5 minute job, piece of cake. When I removed the plug wires from the cap (I kept the wires, changed the cap), I used a Sharpie marker on the old cap to ID where things were as they came off. When the time came to install the new cap, I had a worry-free template. In my case, the plug wires were numbered, making it easier to ID locations. Rotor pulled straight off, new one slid right back in place. I noticed the Bremi (?) dist cap that Pelican sent me awhile back has the plug # markings in a different location than the one that was on there, so watch for that.

I did it all by hand, no air (I prefer to work this way, I feel more connected to the car, though it takes longer). A set of combo wrenches is good, I also used one of my ratchet wrench sets (near-flat w/ thumb switch type from Craftsman). 1/4 & 3/8 drive sockets (short & deep), some extensions. Plug gapper. Boot grease, anti-seize. I use Berryman's B-12 Chemtool to clean mating surfaces & the covers up (great solvent formula, but when spraying, KEEP AWAY FROM THE CAR, B-12 REMOVES PAINT!!!!). 22mm wrench for the O2, 19mm x2 & 17mm x1 for my fuel filter, short torque wrench for the nylocks. Allen wrench kit for removing plug wire loom bracket at alt fan shroud (7mm I think). Get the plug socket with the rubber insert and / or the one Pelican mentions with the swivel on it (though I would not use to install new ones with, as it's hand-feel & I wouldn't want to cross-thread). I had turbo covers already. There's always the discussion of whose covers / gaskets to use & how to polish the seal surface, easy enough to find. Realistically, think about what you want to replace while you're in there. I'm glad I did the O2 now, wish I'd sprung for the wires though. If you're of the mind, it's a great time to install the HeetSheets, etc.

Confidence is a good thing, as is patience (and coffee). Just put Rob Schneider in your head: "You can DOOOOO EEEET!" Worst case, you tow the car to someone to re-do what you did - look at it that way. Best case, you are more in-tune (no pun intended) with your car, you have a better feel for what's going on in there, and you save yourself some money. You know EXACTLY what was done & how it was done. Taking your time, plan on the day or better. The 101 projects book says something like 3 hours for the adjustment - not for the 1st time under the hood of the 911 in my eyes. I did the other items mentioned, took the time to look around, clean some things, replaced some exhaust hardware which was an SOB to remove, etc etc. - took me most of the day Monday, finishing up last night after work, and I need to go back in to do #3 again. This was the 1st time for me doing a screw-type valve adjustment on a car, and the 1st time in 10 years doing a cap & rotor, as the ones I usually do are distributorless ignitions & coil packs. I kept double-checking it. :-D

Sorry to be so long-winded.

Peter Zimmermann

OK, after reading the above I would like to offer the following:

1. "Plug removal." NEVER remove the plugs BEFORE doing the valve adjustment, only after you're done! Replace the plugs before you install the upper covers, it's easier. SnapOn has the best plug socket - with an internal magnet. Plugs - copper core Bosch = good. Anti-seize = BAD!

2. Rocker adjustment. Always wiggle the rocker before inserting the adjustment shim - this breaks the oil lock inside the elephants foot. Yes, there will be drag against the shim during its removal when you've got the clearance correct. No drag = way too loose valve.

3. "VCs". The valve cover nut torque is 18 lb/ft, not 6 lb/ft. This may allow you to re-use your gaskets but watch for leaks the first couple of times that you drive the car.

I will elaborate on any of the above comments but I'm very short of time this morning and will check back later.
Pete

84_Carrera

Peter, bear with me, I was going from memory, I thought it was ~6 lb-ft, which was 8 n-m (thought the Pelican write up was 5.9 lb-ft, or something similar).

Yes, I found that doing the plugs with the upper covers off was easier. I would have liked to vacuum out the plug wells, but didn't have anything to get in there with at the time.

As always, your (& others') input welcome! Being a Newb myself, I wasn't expecting someone was going to follow me verbatim, just puking out what I went through.

bourgeois911

Now I'm really confused on the torque values. I'm pretty sure I used something like 72 inch-pounds on mine and they don't leak at all, but looking back through old threads I see all kinds of differnet answers.

theiceman

72 inch pounds is 6ft lbs...

bourgeois911

That's what has me confused. Pete says 18lb/ft? I checked 101 Projects, and Wayne also claims 5.9 would be correct.

rscredon

All great stuff guys. Between the Rennlist, Bentleys, 101 projects, and Pelican, I think I'll give it a go!

Rich

84_Carrera

Pete, I just re-read your answer re: anti-seize.

I had been taught on EVERY aluminum head you use anti-seize, no exceptions, to prevent stripping the threads on the way out the next time. Of course, this is water-cooled, not air-cooled, dunno if that makes a difference. Aside from possible contamination of the electrode, is there a specific reason? Does it pick up dirt on the way in the well before the plug is seated? Not trying to bust your chops, just wondering the reason for it being so bad.

Dumb question as a follow-up, is there an easier way to index the plugs, as I REALLY can't see in there all that well, even with a mirror & flashlight on the forward cylinders. Is indexing an important / unimportant thing with the 911? Given the acceptance of dual plugs, I would imagine spark shrouding would be something to be conscious of.

Peter Zimmermann

OK guys, here's the deal. Torque confusion comes from a typo in Porsche literature. Spec charts list that "All bolts (including studs & nuts) on the crankcase and camshaft housing" that are M8 (8mm) are to be torqued to 25 Nm. Roughly, 25 Nm = 2.5 mkp. 2.5 mkp x 7.23 = 18 lb/ft. The translators, in much of the same literature, also list "Cover to camshaft housing" at a torque of 8 Nm. Unfortunately, this is where the typo is - they specify M8 when the book should read M6 (6 mm). They also should have clarified that the "cover" they speak of is not the rocker cover, it's the small, round internal cover that fits over the end of the camshaft inside the chain box. That cover secures to the camshaft housing with three 6 mm bolts torqued to, you guessed it, 8 Nm (5.9 lb/ft).

Now about anti-seize. I never authorized its use at the shop because of what we found on cars that had been serviced elsewhere and were in with us on a first time basis. Every car in which the plugs were installed with anti-seize there was a monumental struggle to remove the plugs, many times having to remove them 90 % of the way using a wratchet. On the flip side, on cars we serviced regularly, the plugs broke free from their washer lock and could be turned out all the way by hand. All that we did was apply a very thin coat of lithium-based grease to the first few threads, and then install them. The small amount of grease will "follow" the threads as the plug tightens, and permit easy removal 15K miles later. A side benefit to this is that there will never be a build-up of crud on the threads in the heads, and your next set of plugs will be just as easy to install.

Now, a final thought regarding rocker arm cover torque. I'm pretty sure that I've posted this before, but there are two different types of 8 mm aluminum sealing washers available to use with the nyloc nuts. They are the same in size, but one has an almost shiny (not as bright as chrome, but close) finish, while the other is a flat, light gray. The shiny ones are no good, and will crush into the threads of the studs as the nuts are tightened. Guess what, they're from Taiwan. The flat, gray finish washers are from Germany, and are the same washers that are used on the perimeter studs of your crankcase - they will not crush into the threads. Because they maintain their integrity valve cover removal is much easier the next time you have to remove the covers, because you won't have to dig away at the washers for half an hour. There are kits out there that can have the good or bad washers, return the kit to the supplier if those washers are shiny.

Regarding spark shrouding - this is done with Porsche's beautiful, o.e. (Beru) plug connectors. Nothing further needs to be done.

Pete