spazegun2213

Alright, i figure i should introduce myself as well as ask this question. I'm a new 944 owner as of a few weeks ago and as soon as i get a few more things in order I'll be running the car in 944cup on the east coast.

with racing in mind i was looking at the rules and one class says that i can use any caliper/rotors i want. I figure i could find some turbo brakes (probably fronts only) and bolt them onto the NA. Now i dont think there were turbos till after my cars generation so i would like to ask if:
1) would this be simple to install the brakes?
2) would the 15x7 cookie cutters fit over them?

thanks again
-Spaze

jgporsche

Try a set of these. I will be buying some of these really soon. They look like the best bet. I'll also be putting some turbo rear brakes on my 944S as well.

OH, also, since you're new to the 'List, post some pics of your 944!

Jakerx

You need a bunch of parts to do it. I have the complete list on my computer at home. I'll post it when I get home unless someone else here does it first.

spazegun2213

I'm not a fan of wilwoods, only because I'm under the impression that their pads suck and that they tend to crack rotors (2 of my friends have kits by them)

i would like to keep something OEM, so are the later 944S brakes bigger? or is the same that I'll need a lot of parts?

thanks

spazegun2213

here is the car

sorry its a bad pic.. I need to get some better ones

jgporsche

it looks like you get to pick which pads you want. Any of your friends 'Listers? I'd like to hear why they think the wilwoods caused their rotors to crack. i have been planning on buying them, but i might change my mind now.

Kurt R

What class do you intend on running where the brakes are free?
SCCA ITS - nope.
PCA I stock - nope.
944 cup follows the above so no again.

GTS Challenge allows brake changes, I don't know how competitive the 944 is in its class (depends on hp).

Oddjob

A 944S uses the same calipers front and rear as a 944 n/a.

To do a late to late offset brake conversion, you need the front calipers, rotors, and spindles from a turbo/S2/968 to upgrade to the Turbo 4 piston brembo calipers. To convert an early offset car to the turbo brakes, you probably will run into further complications with the offset issues (hubs, control arm length and tie rod length, possibly the struts...??).

Its acutally easier to upgrade up to the full 928S4/Turbo S front calipers because you can buy adapters to mount them on n/a spindles (because of the bolt/hole pattern on regular turbo calipers, there is no adapter available to mount them on n/a spindles - impossible).

I would not mix the front wilwood kit with turbo rear brakes. The brembo calipers are a better brake and you will get more stopping power from the rear relative to the front. Even if you screw around with adjustable bias valves, the car could still end up being quite unstable during hard braking (rear end will dance and lockup first).

M758

Well close, but not quite right on

SCCA ITS = NO!
NASA 944 SPEC (PCA SP1) = NO
PCA I stock = NO
PCA H Prepared = YES!
944 Cup (yes if running h - prepared at 100lbs over I stock (2650 vs 2750)

Now given the low hp of 944 NA brakes (even stock) are non issue. The stock floating caliper brakes are more than adequate for a 2600 to 2700lbs car as raced. Most of the time we spend trying to get folks to brake LESS to make the cars faster.

Travis - sflraver

A few snippets on the wilwoods.

Someone did crack a rotor after a track session in the pits. You can check the racing forum to find the post and pictures. A crack from the center to outside of the rotor would be caused by an over heated rotor in the stopped position. The caliper holds the heat in once section of the rotor as the rest of it is allowed to cool. Differences in temperature cause it to pull itself apart. If it were a radial crack below the swept area it would be a different story all together, but its not.

The pads do not "suck," as even the street versions have a higher temp. to friction curve than most race pads available for the 944.

The calipers them selves do an amazing job of staying cool under hard braking. This is what they were designed to do.

If using the E or A class pads in a race condition you can easily bring the system up to temperatures in the 1200 + range with out feeling any fade at all. If using them to the limit like this you have to take into consideration cooling, not so much for the brake components but for everything else around them. Wheel bearings, hubs, etc..

Now, do they suck because they push the braking envelope past anything available for the 944 today, are doing so weighing 14 lbs less than the stock units and have some of the best brake pads on the market available to fit them?

Just some facts on the brakes. I don't want this to turn into another "NA brakes are more than adequate" thread.

jgporsche

Good info and clarification. Thanks Travis!

Techno Duck

I think an early offset car only requires hubs and spindles from an '86 Turbo. I will know in a few days as im doing this conversion on an early '85.

I just recently performed this swap on my '87..wasnt really looking to upgrade but got four newly rebuilt calipers, hubs, spindles and four used rotors for $350. I couldnt pass that up.

You will also need a couple misc. bolts and washers to make everything mount up. Your current front caliper mounting bolts can be used with the rear turbo calipers.. you will also need four spacer washers for the rear (i think its a regular 1/2 inch washer). The front calipers require longer bolts, i believe M12x40. 8 new spring washers is a good idea also (they are cheap).

Another thing noone has brought up is that turbo brakes can ONLY be used with 16 inch wheels. A nice thing about the Rennbay setup is you can keep your 15's. Ive heard its possible to run the turbo brake with early offset 15x7 phone dials.. but have never seen or read anyone confirming this.

Whats suprising is the turbo calipers i dont think are any heavier than the stock single pistons... and the stock calipers are so ugly... . The rotors on the other hand have a noticable difference, maybe 2-3lbs heavier.

josephsc

FWIW, I am one happy customer of Rennbay's Wilwood kit. It is very easy to install (you don't need to worry about extra parts), definitely better than my old n/a brakes, I didn't have to rebuilding 20-year old Turbo calipers, and I didn't have to worry about fitting 15" wheels.

Kurt R

I keep forgetting about prepared prep.

I'll take the 100lbs over the brakes, assuming you can meet minimum weight.

spazegun2213

yes, I'm going to run I stock for a little while and then i figure with all the stuff you can do in H (pca referes to it as prepaired if a 944 is in H) that you can make the car a TON faster. There is a lot of stuff in H that will make that 100lbs feel like nothin!

Its not that i dont think the stock brakes are not good enough, I think they are GREAT!! BUT, and this is a big but, larger brakes with a properly sized master cylinder and slicks/r-Comps i beleive could stop the car a LOT faster (or at least i think they can). I knew the 951 brakes were bigger so i figure i might be able to swap them.

To give you all some background, i daily drive and track my Subaru Sti. Its 3300lbs (with out me in it). I have brake coolers and some AMAZING pads (pagids). This coupled with the EBD, and me knowing the limits of the car, means i can out brake an elise (which i have done several times). I chalk this up to the HUGE brembos all around, and thus i figure 4 pot fronts can only aid the stopping power of the tiny 944.

I didnt mean to cause a war, but i have yet to meet anyone that has tracked willwoods and come out ahead. Seeing as all there stuff is proprietary (sp?) I would have to by replacement stuff from willwood. If someone does track them and has had good exiperence please left me know!!!