PCCB SAFTEY ISSUE
10-08-2006, 10:44 AM
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PCCB SAFTEY ISSUE
PCCB Gen One are hopeless - mine failed after 15,000 (mainly road) miles on my GT2...Porsche are of course blaming me!
The carbon surface of the disc separated from the underlying silicon carbide and then destroyed the pads (which were approx 60% worn) after approx 40 miles. I have reported this to the UK Department of Transport as a safety issue as Porsche UK are totally uninterested - other than confirming that even brand new pads can be destroyed in 120 miles once the surface of the disc has failed. There is no warning other than the pad replacement light illuminating (indicating 1/3rd of the pad remaining at that time). Once this light illuminates Porsche say the car is fit to drive gently...but with no warning noise and pad failure within 40 miles this could be lethal....
Quite apart from the ridiculous cost of replacing the discs and pads (Porsche UK quoted over £10,000) there is the ongoing question of why these discs fail so quickly and at such low mileages...when launched they were supposed to last at least 100,000 miles and were "designed for extreme use on the road and Track" now they are wearing out Porsche are apparently blaming the failures on the drivers.
I hear that the Gen Two PCCB wear almost as quickly when hot...so beware!!
Anyone with a similar story please contact me at paulrothwell@mac.com I have photographs of the failures if anyone is interested.
The carbon surface of the disc separated from the underlying silicon carbide and then destroyed the pads (which were approx 60% worn) after approx 40 miles. I have reported this to the UK Department of Transport as a safety issue as Porsche UK are totally uninterested - other than confirming that even brand new pads can be destroyed in 120 miles once the surface of the disc has failed. There is no warning other than the pad replacement light illuminating (indicating 1/3rd of the pad remaining at that time). Once this light illuminates Porsche say the car is fit to drive gently...but with no warning noise and pad failure within 40 miles this could be lethal....
Quite apart from the ridiculous cost of replacing the discs and pads (Porsche UK quoted over £10,000) there is the ongoing question of why these discs fail so quickly and at such low mileages...when launched they were supposed to last at least 100,000 miles and were "designed for extreme use on the road and Track" now they are wearing out Porsche are apparently blaming the failures on the drivers.
I hear that the Gen Two PCCB wear almost as quickly when hot...so beware!!
Anyone with a similar story please contact me at paulrothwell@mac.com I have photographs of the failures if anyone is interested.
10-08-2006, 11:39 AM
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PCCB reply to the unnamed "Ceramic Technologist"
As a Ceramic Technologist (I am a mere Chemical Engineer) perhaps you can explain the failure then (pictures attached). Incidentally which model do you have with PCCB? and how are your brakes used?
10-08-2006, 11:51 AM
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Gen1 had issues...
Why are your pads so thin?
if you changed them out when or before the thickness of the pad was equal to the thickness of the backing plate, you would not be posting.
Gen2 are pretty much bulletproof and are great
Why are your pads so thin?
if you changed them out when or before the thickness of the pad was equal to the thickness of the backing plate, you would not be posting.
Gen2 are pretty much bulletproof and are great
10-08-2006, 11:54 AM
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Thats the whole point...the warning light for pad wear comes on when they are 2/3rds worn ....after 40 (yes forty!) careful road miles with the warning light on this is what happened to the pads...completely destroyed.
Presumably because the disc is acting like a grinder...
Presumably because the disc is acting like a grinder...
10-08-2006, 12:50 PM
#7
Paul,
I know of at least 3 similar failures here in the US all involving a GT2. If you search this forum for PCCB, you'll find a few more. The bottom line is that PCCB gen 1 is junk and Porsche doesn't care about its GT2 customer base.
Just switch to steel in the front an keep pccb in the back. 996 Cup cars steel rotors just fit. If you also want to change the rears, I understand that 997 Cup car steel rotors fit.
It is really regrettable that Porsche doesn't do anything about this. PCCB gen 2 are said to be better but I don't know any advanced driver successfully using them at the track. Will see...
About the pad sensor, I don't think it triggers when 1/3 of the pad is left. From looking at it I believe it is more like 1/4 or 1/5 (about 3mm?)
AW
I know of at least 3 similar failures here in the US all involving a GT2. If you search this forum for PCCB, you'll find a few more. The bottom line is that PCCB gen 1 is junk and Porsche doesn't care about its GT2 customer base.
Just switch to steel in the front an keep pccb in the back. 996 Cup cars steel rotors just fit. If you also want to change the rears, I understand that 997 Cup car steel rotors fit.
It is really regrettable that Porsche doesn't do anything about this. PCCB gen 2 are said to be better but I don't know any advanced driver successfully using them at the track. Will see...
About the pad sensor, I don't think it triggers when 1/3 of the pad is left. From looking at it I believe it is more like 1/4 or 1/5 (about 3mm?)
AW
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10-08-2006, 03:32 PM
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There are a lot of advanced drivers, with the pedigree to prove it, using the ceramics at Barber with nary a problem.
As MJones stated, 8000 miles and no problems.
The "known" problems on Gen 1 have generally been inconclusive at best.
As MJones stated, 8000 miles and no problems.
The "known" problems on Gen 1 have generally been inconclusive at best.
10-08-2006, 03:42 PM
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Gen 1s suffer from design defects: cooling to the rotor, type of carbon fiber used, and two piece design (rather than monolithic). The Gen 1 issues are pretty well documented on here, and the design changes in the Gen 2s appear to be holding up well. Haven't heard of any failures on the 997 cars (not that there aren't).
10-08-2006, 04:47 PM
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Is there anyone who has experienced these failures personally? Lots of hearsay fron Mr Ceramic Technologist but if there is nothing wrong with these brakes why do they keep failing? Is there anyone who let me have first hand experience - either good or bad? Maybe there is inconsistency in production?
P.S. As far as I know the brakes when used in racing applications are frequently changed...not the equivalent of normal road/minor track usage which has destroyed my rotors...see pics above.
P.S. As far as I know the brakes when used in racing applications are frequently changed...not the equivalent of normal road/minor track usage which has destroyed my rotors...see pics above.
10-08-2006, 04:47 PM
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Paul,
I am sorry for your problems, but its a known fact that pads NEED to be changed with PCCB very frequently, you seemed to have unknowingly abused your brakes to the point of failure.
The Gen I brakes are inferior to Gen II, however if treated with respect and with maintenance the Gen I brakes are very good and will last a long time.
I believe that this was Porsche's fault only on Porsche not expressing the need to change brake pads frequently.
Porsche will stick it to you and say that you did not change the brake pads in time.
ps. AW, it is very much indeed 3mm for brake warning light.
I am sorry for your problems, but its a known fact that pads NEED to be changed with PCCB very frequently, you seemed to have unknowingly abused your brakes to the point of failure.
The Gen I brakes are inferior to Gen II, however if treated with respect and with maintenance the Gen I brakes are very good and will last a long time.
I believe that this was Porsche's fault only on Porsche not expressing the need to change brake pads frequently.
Porsche will stick it to you and say that you did not change the brake pads in time.
ps. AW, it is very much indeed 3mm for brake warning light.
10-08-2006, 05:08 PM
#14
> There are a lot of advanced drivers, with the pedigree to prove it, using the ceramics at Barber with nary a problem.
But are they using gen 1 with a GT2? On that note, haven't you guys noticed that most PCCB isues reported here are with the GT2 specifically?
AW
But are they using gen 1 with a GT2? On that note, haven't you guys noticed that most PCCB isues reported here are with the GT2 specifically?
AW
10-08-2006, 05:21 PM
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I think that is because GT2's came with PCCB's and GT3's were an option. The people who knew about the issues with the brakes did not order them on their GT3 and the rest replaced them.
The people with Gen I PCCB's on GT3's are in the minority when it comes to this issue.
Just my thought.
The people with Gen I PCCB's on GT3's are in the minority when it comes to this issue.
Just my thought.