SciFrog

On my 03 C4 cab with navigation based AND 04 Cayenne TT I have the following problem (US cars):

select a town relatively far from where you are (>20 miles)
input a very common address like "12 main st"

look at the direction on the map...
it leads me to the closest town with a "12 main st"

If you select the town center, directions are correct...

Here is the best part: the dealer could easily reproduce the problem, but after some inquiry, they say Porsche has no updates and no fix, nor do they seem to want to update the system anymore. Both cars are still under warranty.

Anyone nice enough to try this and see if they have the problem?

jury_ca

But where does the guidance bring you? To the wrong town that's closer or the correct town?

SciFrog

Guidance brings you to the wrong closest town with a main street, same wrong directions the map is showing...

Adrian

What version software are you using? And what Map CDs are you using? You should have the code cards as well. What two letters do the serial numbers start with, SI (Siemens) or BE (Becker)?
You also posted you were not getting replies on this forum. This is probably because of the low numbers of 996s in the USA with the Nav system fitted.
Do you have the inbuilt telephone option in either or of your Porsches?
The reason I ask is because the part numbers vary depending upon the status.
The problem you have is not just with units/software manufactured for Porsche either. The difference is however that Siemens, Blaupunkt and Becker worked with NavTeq to sort the problem out in conjunction with the car manufacturers who were prepared to pay for the fix. Sadly Porsche was/is not prepared to pay.
Porsche PCM/1 owners with 16-bit CD systems (I had to upgrade my 8-bit to 16-bit) here in Europe got a break when NavTeq decided to make their Opel/Vauxall system work with the Siemens units used by Porsche (MYs 2001 to 2002) and now we can use 2006/2007 updated maps. I do not know the situation in the USA though. PCM/2 owners are not so lucky at this time.

However getting back to your problem. If you have PCM/2 V2.0 firmware you have to use V2.0 CDs. If you have V3.0 firmware you have to use V3.0 CDs. What has happened is that people have inserted a V3.0 CD-rom not knowing that the system will automatically upgrade off the CD-rom. They then revert to using V2.0 CD-roms and some problems may occur. Porsche unfortunately do not spell them out and the unit vendors/manufacturers are not helpful either.
My research suggests that this particular problem seems to only occur on V3.0 in the USA, but I do not have sufficient evidence gathered yet to confirm this. The research problem is that the ROW and USA software/firmware versions are different and the Porsche documentation tends to leave certain information out.
Ciao,
Adrian.

SciFrog

PCM/2 V3.0 updated hardware with V3.0 CDs that were given at the time of the upgrade, the latest available apparently. No phone, I will check on BE or SI...

Adrian

Yes this is the latest and the last upgrade that will be offered to the best of my knowledge.
The actual problem lies in both the Maps CDs and in the way the firmware (software) uses the data. Basically it queries the MAP database which is divided up into 12 sections.
The basic problem being that the Main Sts and all other streets were not individually tagged as belonging to a specific town or city. Lack of database storage capacity on the CD-rom systems is the main reason and hence the change to DVDs which allowed the addition of GPS reference points and conversion of your final destination (you cannot see this) into a GPS point rather than a place on a scanned map.
To put this another way. The CD system is looking for a street and its number system. The city is basically ignored and this is the flaw of not tagging a street to a city.
When you type in a city or town on the screen you are accessing a location database. When you ask for route guidance it sets up the guidance utilising the street name and numbering system along with your preferences, like shortest route.
This system works really well unless it encounters another street of the same name with the same numbering system on the way. When you select city centre then the system drops the need for a street and numbering system and aims for the city centre which does have a converted reference point. Also remember that the system uses Map slices not the whole map, but if you are unlucky enough to have the same street name and numbering system on the same Map slice you will get directions to the closest one.
What you could try is to change your preferences from say shortest route to use Highways and see what happens.
I would be interested to know if anyone has seen this fault with the DVD system.
Ciao,
Adrian.

PS: I have bucket loads of Navigation software here at home due an ongoing experiment I have been doing. All of the software developers have come up with different ways of curing this problem. However each solution requires more and more memory and a change in the Map formats resulting compatibility issues and upgrade issues, like you cannot upgrade from one version to another. What you purchase today could be out of date and useless in six months unless you are prepared to purchase new hardware and new software.

SciFrog

Wao, you've done your homework. Makes perfect sense. At least I know it will never work correctly...

Thanks.

Curvfun

This thread is a great read.

So, how does anyone who purchased MOST based PCM V2 in 2003 and 2004 get map updates? Let's forget the error for a moment, is there any way we can just purchase newer maps? I asked Navteq and they indicated that any newer data for us was up to Porsche. If Porsche doesn't care about it's 996 platform customers and if Navteq won't sell us maps, are there other platforms that use similar data that we can migrate to and burn CD's from?

If we knew the file structures, could we selectively copy files from a Porsche based DVD system onto a CD to get the coverage areas that we want?

Thanks for any guidance you can provide with this.

Adrian

It's actually a project I am working on which will end up in me writing an article for a couple of the magazines I contribute to when I am not writing books. It started as cost effective methods of obtaining Nav systems for cars (not necessarily Porsches), but it will be as much about the total lack of support from the hardware and software suppliers.
Ciao,
Adrian.

Adrian

The maps supplied by NavTeq for the Porsche DVD system cannot be converted to be used on the CDs. They use a different filing/storage/compression system. ViaMichelin did the same with the NavTeq maps and I received the same answer about upgrades from them as you did from NavTeq. I have the same E-mail from NavTeq as well.
Also the hardware suppliers to Porsche told me it was all up to PAG regarding this matter. In fact both Becker and Siemens got quite rude.
NavTeq did see a market here in Europe with the 16-bit PCM/1 equipped 986s and 996s and they converted the Opel/Vauxall CDs for us to use.
Unfortunately they advised me that they have no plans to do this with the Digital "Most" Porsche systems.
Maybe some form of letter with thousands of Porsche PCM/2 owners' signatures to NavTeq might work. If they saw the potential market numbers they might be motivated to help out without Porsche being involved.
BMW still use NavTeq so maybe some investigation could be done there. I have no idea what firmware or system BMW use as their base or the available updates. BMW have also converted to DVD systems so they might be in the same situation.
Ciao,
Adrian.

SciFrog

Search in the Cayenne forum for updates of the CD based data, they contacted Porsche and basically nothing will happen... ever.

Adrian

Contacting Porsche is a waste of time on this issue. However NavTeq are still in the business of making money and their market is dwindling due to the success of others like TeleAtlas. It might be worth a collective gathering of Porsche owners with PCM/2 systems to submit some form of proposal directly to NavTeq (Navtech).
Ciao,
Adrian.

Adrian

Not an answer, but interesting for those considering a Portable GPS unit.
http://www.navigadget.com/index.php/...ed-by-porsche/
I have no idea if such a unit will be released into the US market.
I am still researching the Siemens Navigation system used by Porsche, but it does not look encouraging at this time. What I have found is that Siemens and Siemens-VDO systems are NOT compatible and even among the Siemens systems they made for each car manufacturer were officially incompatible. They did this my changing the compression ratios of the maps.
However NavTeq found a way for the Porsche PCM/1 system to read Opel system CDs using V3.85/5.43 Siemens firmware so I am still looking to see if this could be done with Porsche versions of the PCM/2 system. However I am not holding my breath.
Ciao,
Adrian.

PS: Here is an article which helps to explain how complicated this issue is.
http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/20...ata_pro_1.html
You have to scroll down a bit to get to the car navigation issues. Look for: Posted by: ChrisK at November 8, 2005 01:31 PM. Maybe this company could possibly help?

Curvfun

BMW still uses Navteq. BMW did convert their drives to DVD around 2003. They are updating the map data every year. There is also total coverage in these maps, not just the Metro areas as Porsche imposed upon us.

I'd be happy to contribute one of my older BMW DVD disks if someone who understood the files structures wanted to determine if there was any potential in them for the Porsche side. PM me if interested.

Adrian

Herein lies the problem. Porsche reduced their coverage for the whole USA down to 3 CD-roms. What I would need to help the process along is one of these CD-roms and then I can have to compare the files with existing other manufacturers files along with previous PCM/1 files (which I have).
The people that could convert current maps are NavTeq, but any approach to them will need a technical content.
I have checked for American made cars or other imports into the USA which used the Siemens Navigation system like that used on the Porsche models. Sadly Siemens did not penetrate the American auto manufacturers. The only possibility is the Mercedes S class. This means somebody will have to find one of these cars in the USA with the CD-rom not DVD systems and physically inspect and check the installed components.
By the way this is a serious long shot and will be heavily dependent upon the potential US market. Somebody will also need to get some numbers for 996s, Boxsters and Cayennes affected along with potential sales data. A new set of CDs is still going to cost around $5-600 and if there is no willingness to pay this amount then any further work is useless.
Ciao,
Adrian.