The **DEFINITIVE** other turbocharger choices thread (Garrett, Turbonetics, etc)
08-07-2007, 05:58 PM
#32
Racer
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Exactly, the oil and radiator fluid( if your car was liquid cooled) would be about the same temp. So, I dont see what difference it makes. It would be so easy to fab up something using the oil... but I dont know if the stock scavange pump would be able to handle the volume of oil. I have my chain cover already tapped with an AN fitting. I will just run another AN line from my drain can to the chain cover... which should handle the increased flow.
08-07-2007, 06:32 PM
#33
Originally Posted by turbobrat930
Exactly, the oil and radiator fluid( if your car was liquid cooled) would be about the same temp. So, I dont see what difference it makes. It would be so easy to fab up something using the oil... but I dont know if the stock scavange pump would be able to handle the volume of oil. I have my chain cover already tapped with an AN fitting. I will just run another AN line from my drain can to the chain cover... which should handle the increased flow.
the difference is that the water is more efficient at getting rid of the heat.
08-07-2007, 08:59 PM
#35
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by special tool
the difference is that the water is more efficient at getting rid of the heat.
08-09-2007, 10:56 AM
#36
Drifting
Thread Starter
Now let's talk about the footprint of a Garrett. Let's say a GT30R. My engine is a very well tuned CIS base. I just can't justify EFI expenses when my car is running soooo good. So I'm not sure I'd ever get the full effect of a GT35R with CIS...might be true for the GT30R, but that's where I'm starting.
Anything I need to mod regarding the engine tin? Any other clearence issues? What about the plumbing; intake side of the turbo, as well as the plumbing to the intercooler? That air inlet on the Garrett looks enourmous!
Anything I need to mod regarding the engine tin? Any other clearence issues? What about the plumbing; intake side of the turbo, as well as the plumbing to the intercooler? That air inlet on the Garrett looks enourmous!
08-09-2007, 09:04 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
Sand_man, the Gt30r (Gt3076r technically) comes as standard with a T04E .60a/r 4" compressor anti-surge housing. The Gt35r (Gt3582r) comes as standard with a T04S .70a/r 4" compressor housing. However, there are plenty of retailers around that sell these turbos as well as various others with plenty of turbine and compressor housing options. ATP Turbo is one retailer that does this. Here's the Gt30r from ATP. If you look at the bottom, you can option on a 3" T04E compressor housing, and you can also do this for the Gt35r as well as plenty of other turbos. The 3" T04E would make it much easier to fit, and you really shouldn't have to do any modification to the engine tin or anything to fit it either (kind of depends on your headers). The only real difference between the T04E and T04S housings is the T04S is a .70a/r which is designed to provide a bit better flow capacity at higher engine rpm/wheel speed, which helps keep the turbo from dropping off as much on the top-end. Unless you are going for big power like 600+whp though, a T04E will work just fine, and heck it will probably work past 600whp too but there is the whole law of diminishing returns thing to deal with. 
08-10-2007, 11:56 AM
#39
Drifting
Thread Starter
Some info I found on ATP's website regarding bearings:
Ball Bearing vs. Journal Bearing
The journal bearing has long been the brawn of the turbocharger, however a ball bearing cartridge is now an affordable technology advancement that provides significant performance improvements to the turbocharger. Ball bearing innovation began as a result to work with the Garrett Motor Sports group of several racing series where it received the term the 'cartridge ball bearing'. The cartridge is a single sleeve system that contains a set of angular contact ball bearings on either end, whereas the traditional bearing system contained a set of journal bearings and a thrust bearing.
Turbo Response - When driving a vehicle with the cartridge ball bearing turbocharger, you will find exceptionally crisp and strong throttle response. Garrett Ball Bearing turbochargers spool up 15% faster than traditional journal bearings. This produces an improved response that can be converted to quicker 0-60 mph speed. In fact, some professional drivers using Garrett ball bearing turbocharged systems claim that they feel like they are driving a big, normally aspirated engine.
Reduced Oil Flow - The ball bearing design reduces the required amount of oil to provide adequate lubrication. This lower oil volume reduces the chance for seal leakage. Also, the ball bearing is more tolerant of marginal lube conditions, and diminishes the possibility of turbocharger failure on engine shut down.
Improved Rotor Dynamics and Durability - The ball bearing cartridge gives better damping and control over shaft motion, allowing enhanced reliability of both everyday and extreme conditions. In addition, the opposed angular contact bearing cartridge eliminates the need for the thrust bearing, commonly a weak link in the turbo bearing system.
Additional Ball Bearing Options - Another option one will find is a hybrid ball bearing. This consists of replacing only the compressor side journal bearing with a single angular contact ball bearing. Since the single ball bearing can only take the thrust in one direction, a thrust bearing is still necessary and drag in the turbine side journal bearing is unchanged. With the Garrett ball bearing cartridge the rotor-group is entirely supported by the ball bearings, maximizing efficiency, performance, and durability.
Information Provided By: Garrett Performance Products
The journal bearing has long been the brawn of the turbocharger, however a ball bearing cartridge is now an affordable technology advancement that provides significant performance improvements to the turbocharger. Ball bearing innovation began as a result to work with the Garrett Motor Sports group of several racing series where it received the term the 'cartridge ball bearing'. The cartridge is a single sleeve system that contains a set of angular contact ball bearings on either end, whereas the traditional bearing system contained a set of journal bearings and a thrust bearing.
Turbo Response - When driving a vehicle with the cartridge ball bearing turbocharger, you will find exceptionally crisp and strong throttle response. Garrett Ball Bearing turbochargers spool up 15% faster than traditional journal bearings. This produces an improved response that can be converted to quicker 0-60 mph speed. In fact, some professional drivers using Garrett ball bearing turbocharged systems claim that they feel like they are driving a big, normally aspirated engine.
Reduced Oil Flow - The ball bearing design reduces the required amount of oil to provide adequate lubrication. This lower oil volume reduces the chance for seal leakage. Also, the ball bearing is more tolerant of marginal lube conditions, and diminishes the possibility of turbocharger failure on engine shut down.
Improved Rotor Dynamics and Durability - The ball bearing cartridge gives better damping and control over shaft motion, allowing enhanced reliability of both everyday and extreme conditions. In addition, the opposed angular contact bearing cartridge eliminates the need for the thrust bearing, commonly a weak link in the turbo bearing system.
Additional Ball Bearing Options - Another option one will find is a hybrid ball bearing. This consists of replacing only the compressor side journal bearing with a single angular contact ball bearing. Since the single ball bearing can only take the thrust in one direction, a thrust bearing is still necessary and drag in the turbine side journal bearing is unchanged. With the Garrett ball bearing cartridge the rotor-group is entirely supported by the ball bearings, maximizing efficiency, performance, and durability.
Information Provided By: Garrett Performance Products
08-10-2007, 04:53 PM
#41
Three Wheelin'
Just FYI but, looking at the 35r and K27-7200 comparison pics on page 2, I had an interesting observation. It appears the turbine housings of both have almost identical size and shape inlet and outlet flanges. A few people actually found in the 951 community that a certain Garrett T3 turbine (the 4 bolt one linked below) housing actually had the same exact size and bolt pattern of the turbine outlet, and to such a degree that a stock turbo elbow/downpipe would bolt right to it. The Garrett GT stock T3 turbine housing, if you notice from those pictures, extends out farther than the K27 housing as the GT series has a velocity stack shape to it. However, if you check ATP's website Gt35r for example they have an option called "T3 4 bolt exhaust housing" which has a much shorter flange area. It's possible it could make fitment easier as it doesn't have the extra length, and if the bolt pattern truly is the same, then theoretically the exhaust might even bolt up or at least come close. Either way, I'd just bypass the whole issue and run a GT series v-band housing as it's plenty simple to fab up a v-band exhaust, plus those GT series housings are really nice and part of the reason those turbos are so efficient. Anyways, lots of speculation on my part so, take everything with a grain of salt.
08-10-2007, 11:13 PM
#42
Racer
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Regarding fitment, here's the turbine housing of my custom GT35R:
and going from K27 HFS to this Garrett GT35R it was a straight bolt on job on both sides:
and going from K27 HFS to this Garrett GT35R it was a straight bolt on job on both sides:
Last edited by Olli; 08-18-2007 at 06:58 PM.
08-14-2007, 09:01 PM
#44
Instructor
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I'm going to add to this a very important benefit to ball bearing turbos; much tighter housing-to-compressor wheel tolerances. I have a set of K03s from my Audi for doorstops (all they're good for) and you'd be shocked at the shaft tolerance necessary for journal bearing lubrication. This design limitation necessitates comparatively huge compressor clearances to what they can get away with in a Garrett. This extra clearance allows boost backflow, impacting the efficiency. Zero-clearancing helps somewhat. I spent years tuning the Audi, that's where my knowledge base is coming from, and why my wallet is already quivvering with fear over the prospect of EFI for my '92 Turbo!
