Proposal for Rules Change SPB Transmitions
06-04-2019, 10:50 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Proposal for Rules Change SPB Transmitions
This is the email I sent to Walt Fricke. please support.
Hi Walt:
The current availability of SPB transmissions is under 17, nationwide. Two years ago they cost $300-500. Now, they are $1,250-$2,000, depending on their mileage. The least expensive ones are at over 100,000 miles!
At every PCA Race, at least 2-3 transmissions must be replaced. This past weekend at The Clash @ The Glen, in our camp, Provost Motorsports (10 SPB’s) we lost 2 alone. It’s almost always 3rd or 4th gear that go out because the main shaft flexes and opens up the gear spacing, which rips the teeth off of the gears. Even rebuilt ones will fail under the stress. These transmissions last 1 year under racing conditions. (Averaging 4 races/year.) They simply were not built for racing.
The cost to rebuild an existing transmission is also prohibitively expensive: $400 for 3rd gear alone, plus synchros, bearings, seals and labor. Runs at least $2,500 and as I said, they too, will fail.
There are over 150 SPB’s racing nationally and the lack of available transmissions is becoming critical. The exorbitant costs are also not in keeping with the philosophy of the spec class making it an accessible form of PCA racing.
We would like to propose that the rule for the transmission be changed to include the next gen of transmissions. Yes, it is for a 2.7 liter engine, but the gearing, while not identical, is very, very close and will work, per the many SPB mechanics with whom I’ve spoken. Additionally, a significantly greater number of these are available at a lower price point.
From all of us SPB drivers, we urge you to change the rule before the transmissions cost more than the engines.
Thank you for your consideration,
Ann
The current availability of SPB transmissions is under 17, nationwide. Two years ago they cost $300-500. Now, they are $1,250-$2,000, depending on their mileage. The least expensive ones are at over 100,000 miles!
At every PCA Race, at least 2-3 transmissions must be replaced. This past weekend at The Clash @ The Glen, in our camp, Provost Motorsports (10 SPB’s) we lost 2 alone. It’s almost always 3rd or 4th gear that go out because the main shaft flexes and opens up the gear spacing, which rips the teeth off of the gears. Even rebuilt ones will fail under the stress. These transmissions last 1 year under racing conditions. (Averaging 4 races/year.) They simply were not built for racing.
The cost to rebuild an existing transmission is also prohibitively expensive: $400 for 3rd gear alone, plus synchros, bearings, seals and labor. Runs at least $2,500 and as I said, they too, will fail.
There are over 150 SPB’s racing nationally and the lack of available transmissions is becoming critical. The exorbitant costs are also not in keeping with the philosophy of the spec class making it an accessible form of PCA racing.
We would like to propose that the rule for the transmission be changed to include the next gen of transmissions. Yes, it is for a 2.7 liter engine, but the gearing, while not identical, is very, very close and will work, per the many SPB mechanics with whom I’ve spoken. Additionally, a significantly greater number of these are available at a lower price point.
From all of us SPB drivers, we urge you to change the rule before the transmissions cost more than the engines.
Thank you for your consideration,
Ann
06-04-2019, 11:04 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
As it happens, Walt wrote an article in the latest issue of PCA Club Racing News. He does concede that the design is suboptimal and aftermarket gears and an aftermarket main shaft with a smaller oil hole (less shaft flex) would help. But aftermarket parts are not allowed. He also suggests that people shift better and not use the Saches clutch and instead use the OEM clutch to reduce shift load on the box. Not terribly helpful IMHO.
The available supply is vanishing before our eyes. Made worse because many racers have learned to carry as many spare boxes as they can get their hands on. As I left the Watkins Glen paddock on Sunday, I saw several discarded SPB gearboxes nearby. I can't think of anything more wasteful than throwing out gearboxes like this. The price of available boxes goes up and people are compelled to carry spares. Kind of spoils the intended economies in SPB racing.
My own transmission failed at the start of P2. My first SPB race and I am already in the replacement transmission club. More $$$ for my SPB..
The available supply is vanishing before our eyes. Made worse because many racers have learned to carry as many spare boxes as they can get their hands on. As I left the Watkins Glen paddock on Sunday, I saw several discarded SPB gearboxes nearby. I can't think of anything more wasteful than throwing out gearboxes like this. The price of available boxes goes up and people are compelled to carry spares. Kind of spoils the intended economies in SPB racing.
My own transmission failed at the start of P2. My first SPB race and I am already in the replacement transmission club. More $$$ for my SPB..
This is the email I sent to Walt Fricke. please support.
Hi Walt:
The current availability of SPB transmissions is under 17, nationwide. Two years ago they cost $300-500. Now, they are $1,250-$2,000, depending on their mileage. The least expensive ones are at over 100,000 miles!
At every PCA Race, at least 2-3 transmissions must be replaced. This past weekend at The Clash @ The Glen, in our camp, Provost Motorsports (10 SPB’s) we lost 2 alone. It’s almost always 3rd or 4th gear that go out because the main shaft flexes and opens up the gear spacing, which rips the teeth off of the gears. Even rebuilt ones will fail under the stress. These transmissions last 1 year under racing conditions. (Averaging 4 races/year.) They simply were not built for racing.
The cost to rebuild an existing transmission is also prohibitively expensive: $400 for 3rd gear alone, plus synchros, bearings, seals and labor. Runs at least $2,500 and as I said, they too, will fail.
There are over 150 SPB’s racing nationally and the lack of available transmissions is becoming critical. The exorbitant costs are also not in keeping with the philosophy of the spec class making it an accessible form of PCA racing.
We would like to propose that the rule for the transmission be changed to include the next gen of transmissions. Yes, it is for a 2.7 liter engine, but the gearing, while not identical, is very, very close and will work, per the many SPB mechanics with whom I’ve spoken. Additionally, a significantly greater number of these are available at a lower price point.
From all of us SPB drivers, we urge you to change the rule before the transmissions cost more than the engines.
Thank you for your consideration,
Ann
The current availability of SPB transmissions is under 17, nationwide. Two years ago they cost $300-500. Now, they are $1,250-$2,000, depending on their mileage. The least expensive ones are at over 100,000 miles!
At every PCA Race, at least 2-3 transmissions must be replaced. This past weekend at The Clash @ The Glen, in our camp, Provost Motorsports (10 SPB’s) we lost 2 alone. It’s almost always 3rd or 4th gear that go out because the main shaft flexes and opens up the gear spacing, which rips the teeth off of the gears. Even rebuilt ones will fail under the stress. These transmissions last 1 year under racing conditions. (Averaging 4 races/year.) They simply were not built for racing.
The cost to rebuild an existing transmission is also prohibitively expensive: $400 for 3rd gear alone, plus synchros, bearings, seals and labor. Runs at least $2,500 and as I said, they too, will fail.
There are over 150 SPB’s racing nationally and the lack of available transmissions is becoming critical. The exorbitant costs are also not in keeping with the philosophy of the spec class making it an accessible form of PCA racing.
We would like to propose that the rule for the transmission be changed to include the next gen of transmissions. Yes, it is for a 2.7 liter engine, but the gearing, while not identical, is very, very close and will work, per the many SPB mechanics with whom I’ve spoken. Additionally, a significantly greater number of these are available at a lower price point.
From all of us SPB drivers, we urge you to change the rule before the transmissions cost more than the engines.
Thank you for your consideration,
Ann
06-05-2019, 12:00 AM
#3
I'm in....
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What about the Audi A4 trans? Same box with slightly shorter gears. Lots of them around.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Manual-Tran...oAAOSwsO5b2L2n
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Manual-Tran...oAAOSwsO5b2L2n
06-05-2019, 01:07 AM
#4
I have been using the same gear box for 3.5 seasons with 8 weekends/year (NASA and PCA) with a trans cooler and frequent fluid changes. I have no issues but am careful not to shift forcefully or pop the clutch too quickly. Just curious how others have fared.
06-05-2019, 06:28 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
Didn’t that article also mention that Drake never changed out a transmission? Maybe that would indicate that it’s more about how it’s used/abused. I have five races plus probably a dozen DE’s and unknown street miles on mine...hoping it and the motor hold out a while longer
06-05-2019, 07:25 AM
#6
Rennlist Member
It's a bit hit or miss, I've found fresh fluid all the time helps
I'm totally open to widening the pool / but just need to be thoughtful as some will change boxes based on track if we do that
Doug out here on west coast has figured out how to refresh the boxes for not huge dollars legally
I'm totally open to widening the pool / but just need to be thoughtful as some will change boxes based on track if we do that
Doug out here on west coast has figured out how to refresh the boxes for not huge dollars legally
06-05-2019, 11:11 AM
#7
Rennlist Member
If the article said Drake never replaced a trans thats not correct. I saw his car get a new transmission on more than a few occasions.
In 5 years of SPB racing, 5-6 races a year, I only ever did one trans. I replaced the fluid after every event and ran a trans cooler. I actually stopped carrying a spare trans because I got sick of lugging it around and not needing it.
Yes the transmission is not the strongest, but I also don't see why they need to be replaced all the time if you can shift properly and be easy on it. The first transmission went because it was a race at 105 degree's at VIR. Folded the syncro's over the gear because it was just to hot to be racing.
Adding different transmission types to the class wont help you on the cost side. It will cause a bunch of people to go out and replace their transmissions because of a perceived advantage (real or not). How many people went out and bought new MCS shocks because they thought there might be an advantage? Or new Jongbloed wheels because they thought there would be an advantage?
Every time the rules change to include new or different parts, the cost of the cars and class goes up.
In 5 years of SPB racing, 5-6 races a year, I only ever did one trans. I replaced the fluid after every event and ran a trans cooler. I actually stopped carrying a spare trans because I got sick of lugging it around and not needing it.
Yes the transmission is not the strongest, but I also don't see why they need to be replaced all the time if you can shift properly and be easy on it. The first transmission went because it was a race at 105 degree's at VIR. Folded the syncro's over the gear because it was just to hot to be racing.
Adding different transmission types to the class wont help you on the cost side. It will cause a bunch of people to go out and replace their transmissions because of a perceived advantage (real or not). How many people went out and bought new MCS shocks because they thought there might be an advantage? Or new Jongbloed wheels because they thought there would be an advantage?
Every time the rules change to include new or different parts, the cost of the cars and class goes up.
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06-05-2019, 11:25 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
The article didn’t specify who, I made the assumption based on the context...three-time national champ who started in 2010 or something like that. So if that’s not him, I stand corrected and that’s what I get for assuming...
06-05-2019, 12:39 PM
#9
Race Director
I just replaced my 99 transmission (4th gear teeth sheared) and since its a hybrid build and not an SPB, I went with the 2.7 transmission. The gearing is longer, so what advantages it may have on one end, it loses on the other, making it essentially a wash. Adding it as an option seems to be reasonable as there is no perceived advantage and those people who find the 97-99 transmission preferrable can run them, are free to do so.
06-05-2019, 12:52 PM
#10
What gearing does the VW/Audi box have thats a direct fit? Someone on the west coast, I cant remember who, in LA I think, did a full swap to prove it out and it worked well. These were out of 2.0L Jettas I think, of which there are plenty for cheap...
06-05-2019, 01:36 PM
#11
Drifting
I bought my SPB two years ago with 3 races on it. It started to crunch at my first SPB event at COTA, 1 year later and 3 events, I swapped it at COTA this year. I had an oil cooler and pump on it.
I'm not at the pointy end -- nor do I expect to be -- I'm closer to the feathers in this group --
As COTA is my home track, I expect to be going through transmissions like clock work.
As I happen to have a 2.7 lying around, that option would be really nice as a backup.
Mike
I'm not at the pointy end -- nor do I expect to be -- I'm closer to the feathers in this group --
As COTA is my home track, I expect to be going through transmissions like clock work.
As I happen to have a 2.7 lying around, that option would be really nice as a backup.
Mike
06-05-2019, 02:07 PM
#12
Race Director
there are about multiple vw/audi transmissions that should work, all with slightly different gearing. Its all mostly similar to the stock tranny. No huge benefits anywhere. You would need to swap in new stub axles (output shafts with axle hubs in other words) and bolt up the linkage stuff. Not sure if there are other steps required, but these are the basics.
06-05-2019, 08:42 PM
#14
Perfect Angel
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I just replaced my 99 transmission (4th gear teeth sheared) and since its a hybrid build and not an SPB, I went with the 2.7 transmission. The gearing is longer, so what advantages it may have on one end, it loses on the other, making it essentially a wash. Adding it as an option seems to be reasonable as there is no perceived advantage and those people who find the 97-99 transmission preferrable can run them, are free to do so.
I've gone thru 3 since 2011. Always 4th gear. I'm not sure where the numbers on availability are coming from but I don't think it's time to panic just yet. Starting the conversation is good though.
06-05-2019, 09:24 PM
#15
I'm in....
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New parts at a reasonable price would be ideal. It's a shame to keep scrapping these things. I only went through 1 in the 10 years of thrashing a 99 Boxster track car with a 300 hp 3.4L engine and a stock 5 speed tranny so they aren't that fragile except for 4th.