manitou202

I'm sure this will induce a lot of eye rolling and head shaking. But here we go.

Ever since the Taycan reveal on Wednesday, I've been pretty disappointed at the performance specs (compared to the Model S P100D) and the price. I love the looks and the modern interior, but I've expressed my overall displeasure in numerous threads on Rennlist and was almost ready to pull my deposit. I was hoping the higher end models (Turbo) would start around $125k (much lower than the Panamera) and I was hoping the performance specs would be more earth shattering (not sure exactly what I was expecting but it didn't feel right). I also felt like Porsche was loading up the Taycan with unnecessary luxury and non-performance tech which drove the weight and price up.

After some reflection and investigation this weekend I've completely changed my mind. Here are my reasons:

First the price. I did a deeper comparison between the Taycan Turbo and the Panamera Turbo and found that although the base prices are only a couple of grand apart, when you start adding common options the Panamera jumps much more quickly and some options were even no cost on the Taycan. As a result an equally spec'ed Panamera Turbo compared to my Taycan was about $9k more.I also realized that between the Federal Ta Credit and the Colorado State Tax credit I'll be getting $13,500 back. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, but it definitely helped me justify the difference. Also as BusDriver posted, it's actually fairly competitive price wise against other manufacturers with similar performance and luxury.

Second the performance. Three aspects about the initial performance specs were concerning: range, acceleration (I know hard to believe 0-60 in 3 seconds isn't good enough), and weight.

Range I wasn't overly concerned with due to this being a third vehicle, however it seemed like Porsche dropped the ball compared to Tesla's range. After reading a bit more, and exploring the charging network from Electrify America, I'm way more comfortable that the range is sufficient when paired with the charging times and the rapid expansion of the Electrify America network with 350kW chargers. I quickly found that I could in theory do delivery at Porsche HQ in Atlanta and have 350kW Charging options the entire way home to Colorado. 3 years free are included.

Acceleration isn't as good as the Tesla P100D when it's in Ludicrous mode, but I had to remember a couple of things. First, the Tesla has to actually enter Ludicrous mode and cool the batteries. So in theory running into a Model S on the street (I don't promote street racing) it would probably run neck and neck. Then I also remembered that compared to just about everything else on the road, the acceleration of EV's is so instantaneous that it will out run just about anything unless the other car enters some sort of launch control or is already in gear ready to go. Part of the joy of EV's is the instant acceleration all the time. A Panamera Turbo with a 0-60 in the low 3 second range doesn't feel nearly as quick as a Tesla Model 3 with a similar 0-60 time because the Tesla has that instant acceleration. The Taycan will obviously be similar. It will probably crush just about everything on the road.

Weight has been a tough one to justify. I'm still not happy that it's over 5000lbs but I'm confident that Porsche designed it right so that regardless of weight it can run circles around most cars at smaller circuits. I'm also confident the driving dynamics will be what we expect from Porsche. I watched a few more reviews by journalists who drove the prototypes and they really emphasize that you don't feel the weight like you would expect. So I'm hoping this will be the case. I'm torn on whether I should add all the performance options to try and reduce the feel of the weight, but I'm not sure they will make a big difference.

Finally, I realized that this is the best EV available and probably will become the new bench mark for many years to come. Yes the price is very high, but I guess that's what it takes to play today in this field. I'm still a huge Tesla fan (our main daily driver is a Model X) mostly because they disrupted the auto industry and proved that EV's can be mainstream and can even be better than internal combustion engines. I'm pretty confident the Taycan would not be here today without Tesla taking the initial lead. Tesla will hopefully continue to remain the bench mark as the more affordable high performance (American Muscle car style) EV, while Porsche takes the throne as the high end, overall high performing EV sports car. The new Corvette versus 911 war.

ipse dixit

Congrats.

I may do the same thing but waiting for the reveal of the Mercedes Vision EQS, just to see what the other German car maker can do.

martinced

I completely understand. The Taycan Turbo is obviously not going after the Model S buyers but after the Panamera buyers. I daily drive a Panamera and I "get" the Taycan (even if I won't buy one now: too pricey for me, I'm fine with buying used Panamera seen how quickly they depreciate). People daily driving a Tesla don't get the Taycan.

Needsdecaf

Yup.

This car isn't a Tesla killer. On performance stats, perhaps. But in the real world, the prices are too different. When the 4S comes it it'll certainly steal some sales away from Model S Performance buyers for several reasons. One of which is that the Model S is just, well, freaking old at this point. Also, there are a lot of Tesla owners that are into the culture / counterculture and see themselves as rebels, even if they really aren't. So to them, Tesla is the antithesis of Porsche. Finally, believe it or not, there are a lot of non-enthusiast drivers who LIKE having no buttons / controls and a lack of clutter on the interior. They would rather full self driving happen now so they didn't have to do it themselves.

The truth is Tesla and Elon moved the needle. Without the success of the S, we wouldn't be here today. Down the road, maybe. But not now. And that's a good thing.

I am looking forward to hearing buyer's real world reviews. And I'll put this out there: I, and I'm sure I speak for the other EV owners on here, would be more than happy to discuss EV technicalities, strategies for charging, etc at any time. Dave O was very kind and helpful when I bought mine and I'm more than happy to do the same for others.

Manitou, when do you get yours?

manitou202

No official date. Sounds like allocations haven't been handed out yet. However I told my SA that I would prefer a delivery in March/April at the earliest due to several personal things I need to take care of first. He implied this was easy to do and I would probably lock at the end of the year.

daveo4porsche

@manitou202 - I'm going to go ahead and need the full address where the car will be garaged - and sometime in the future (post delivery) when you'll be out of town for a while… ;-)

I can't wait to hear your thoughts once you get one.

unclewill

Awesome! Congrats! I, too, have done some further reflection and have concluded that the Taycan is arguably the most compelling mass market EV out there for the “money is no object” crowd. It is certainly the most advanced car that Porsche offers, and since they are unable to meet demand in the foreseeable future due to supply constraints, the price will necessarily be high. I’ll also look forward to your owners reports...

bmwexpat

Congratulations!

Very curious as to what you are told in regards to an actual allocation and delivery date.

Will probably head over to my Porsche store this weekend to see if they have any details on allocations and dates if I decide to move forward with a Turbo S.

As I'm in California with a relatively high volume Porsche Dealer, I'm very curious as to what your Colorado dealer tells you vs. my California dealer. With over 55% of all US BEV being sold in California, I'm supposing that CA deliveries will be a priority. But like all assumptions they can be very wrong.

Outlaw

Solid analysis.

I have a 19 Panamera Turbo and driving it today, I’m reflecting on how great a DD this is with V8 burbles and rolls around corners with PDCC and the buying experience I went through.

So my thoughts on this car.

The technical enigma for me was the Panny Turbo S with the 30 mile range. You have guys irritated that they only attained 25 miles electric on a 200 k car. Huh? So considering that and the bleeding depreciation on my car, let’s do the next evolution of the Porsche E car. Surely Porsche must have engineered it out?

So so here it is the Taycan, 5-7 years in development and 200 mile performance range? Same price and they disposed of a 50 k biturbo V8, and all of the other components? No bueno.

Im a big tech guy and this reminds me of the first few iPhones that had gaping technology, but the cost of new iterations was a no brainer. I’m not spending 170 k on what really is a first generation. In a couple of years Taycan will have double the range to keep up with Tesla, and the 2020 car will bleed $ as a result.

Cpoarchy

Ready for pickup

wogamax

RE: Instant acceleration. I remember my first turbo-lag experience, in a pre-87 911 Turbo, approaching the off-camber (re-entry from the boot) section of WGI. Anyone knowing what that means should appreciate that beyond gettin off the line, EVs offer fantastic throttle modulation; you lift, it's off. You step, it's ON.

OP's point holds, that Tesla's can take time for optimal accelerations, but 'Max Battery' is to warm the batteries, not cool them. Just as an old 12V will tend to die in winter, voltage is restored/optimized at warmer than room temps. That said, all M3, MS and Taycan will likely still have heat, as the number one enemy of track-time. Heat whose other enemies will be the constant discharge, and regen soaking, that 5100lb of inertia will demand (The 1000+lb difference, to Model 3, will show up here). This is why Taycan needs the extra cooling, and ceramic pizzas (so, 265KW doesn't "frag" the cells). If a ~5,000lb Model S can't last 5 minutes w/o thermal cuts, when its (~60KW) regen has already been dialed further down, I somehow doubt Taycan will be able to make max use of its 265KW KERS, for very long.

On the street, a totally different story. Taycan will have the luxury of choosing when to strike. No launch choreography. Always cool enough, ~700-800 volts on tap and an ability to make up lots, on exit speed.

What most DD Tesla owners don't get is Taycan's 150+k price. Some of us get, and might lust for getting away from a "Silicon Valley" experience (don't re-arrange my dash, bro).

pokingaround

Congrats and nicely done @manitou202 though I'm bummed you're not waiting for the ST (CT?) version I very much look forward to your thoughts. Trading the Panny I assume?

evanevery

I don't know "who Porsche is going after", but as a Model-X owner I can tell you I'm anxious to get my Turbo S.

Don't get me wrong I LOVE my Model-X and I have absolutely zero regrets on its purchase. Tesla has done some very amazing things in their cars which continue to set standards to this very day - and will likely continue to do so even with other manufacturer's only now starting to play in their sandbox. I could go on with a list of things that my Model X does that no other cars do (even the Taycan), but that's NOT why I'm looking forward to the Taycan.

The fact of the matter is, no matter how much I love my Tesla, its not a vehicle that was designed and manufactured by a "well established" car company. While it has a very "respectable" build quality, its not up the standards of the many BMW's that I've owned (the Taycan will be my first Porsche as BMW still isn't yet playing in the full EV space - and I DO own an i8 Roadster). There are lots of little things: the Model X door panels are a bit proud of the frame (and are not adjustable), there is significant wind noise in the car at speed, the material quality is good but not great, ... With other mfrs now playing in Tesla's space, options are only now starting to appear which directly challenge their vehicles.

...and 200+ miles range are where its at!

So I, for one, am looking forward to see what a company like Porsche can do now that they have their sites set firmly on the same market. I'm not looking forward to the Taycan as a performance competitor to the Model S/X, I'm looking forward to it EXCEEDING some of the less quantifiable characteristics. I don't care if its 0.2 secs slower, or maybe has 30-70 miles less range. I care about the driving experience, vehicle handling, comfort, and overall owner experience.

So in that regard YES - Porsche IS VERY MUCH cross selling to the Tesla community. I'm not considering or cross shopping a Panamera. I want a true EV with decent range, great handling, superior comfort and really good build quality.

(Maybe some day I'll replace my M4 Race car with a GT3RS - but THIS is not THAT).

pokingaround

This is especially going to be true in the LA and NYC metro areas IMO. Bay Area it may be more of a mix. Tons of money obv, but also tons of 'wear it on your sleeve geek' for whom the Porsche may not hold as much appeal.

evanevery

FYI: I'm not in LA or NYC (or the bay area). I'm in Wisconsin...

...and I'm also not "wearing it on my sleeve". I've been racing cars for quite some time (done the Ring now maybe 8 times) and just appreciate a "good car".

Why is it that people can't simply be making this type of purchase for the car it hopefully is?