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I'm considering a MY20 TS. Two questions... I see lots of disparaging comments in this forum re: MY20. Other than first year, what is not curable? What is not updatable?
Does CPO cover the options on the car that included accessories such as the PMCC?
Once updated from the software standpoint the 2020s are great. There were some problematic cars but they have been fixed or lemon lawed by now. That won't stop a few members from making largely baseless, disparaging comments about that model year.
CPO is basically an extended factory warranty and a very good one, covers everything. I love CPO cars. Depreciation hit and a nice long warranty. Very good question on the PMCC however, that I'm not sure about. Highly probable if it was on the build sheet for the car. Dealer call will tell you.
CPO is basically an extended factory warranty and a very good one, covers everything. I love CPO cars. Depreciation hit and a nice long warranty. Very good question on the PMCC however, that I'm not sure about. Highly probable if it was on the build sheet for the car. Dealer call will tell you.
Porsche's warranty on the PMC+/PMCC/PWCC is wonky - 2 years, but only if "installed by an authorized porsche installer" - which is hard to consider for a Moble EVSE - the good news here is Porsche is so clueless about their EVSE's that the local tech's will probably just diagnose and replace with out much question - they themselves don't know the warranty I've "asked"…
reminder these items are $2800-$3500 items if you have to buy them yourself - if it comes down to it - higher quality, fully compatible EVSE's can be had for $200 on up - $600 given you a lot of very high quality choices - I would under _NO_ circumstance purchase a Porsche EVSE - they are just too crappy and too expensive.
Last edited by daveo4porsche; 08-25-2023 at 01:24 PM.
Any charging speed difference between an MY20 and MY21+? My dealer's "Porsche Pro" said there was and I'm skeptical that wasn't just software...?
I can get 268 kW from my 2020 Taycan when EA actually works (rare) - but it has happened
max charge rate however is misleading - the actual time difference between 270 kW @ 150 kW charging is about 6-8 minutes and 150-175 kW charging is easier on the battery and more common at EA sites…both charge rates get the car deep into the 80% treshhold in the allotted 30 minute "free" EA session time - and I normally unplug between 85 & 95% - normally running 5 to 8 min "over" the 30 minute mark - charging slows down to be super slow after 95% so time spent at charging stall is not worth the minuscule range you are gaining for that last 5-7%…
I wouldn't sweat the battery - 8 year/100,000 mile warranty - and max charge rate only occurs in a narrow window of conditions - with both charge rates (150 or 268) the car is normally ready before I am if I'm getting some snacks and take a bio-break while charging
humbly I'll suggest you're focusing the wrong thing ;-)
Last edited by daveo4porsche; 08-25-2023 at 05:51 PM.
this is close enough that other than actual internal document for the charging taper curve - this is about as good as you're going to do for different charge rates…
only porsche knows the real curve but this on is close enough to do some estimates - basically you taper to 150 kw or less around the 50-60% mark
so from say 5% to 55% you are benefitting from the higher rate
or about 50% total capacity
50% of 84.3 kwhs is 42 kwhs
42 kwh @ 270 kw takes .1555 hours 9.3 min let’s call it 10
42 kwh @ 150 kw takes .28 hours or 16.8 min - let’s call it 17 min
17-9 = 8 min savings
NOTE : this is optimistic because the 270 is max and not flat line - there is taper continuously - so you won’t get 270 for the entire run from 5% to 60 %
after 60% you are at 150 kw or below - so the “advantage” is the delta where it’s faster to ~60%
about 8-9 min best case…
also it’s been my experience @ 150 kw chargers that Taycan gets about 175 kw normally and flat lines at that rate - so that closes the gap better than estimated above until the two curves converge at the 60% point at which point the remaining time should be identical or very similar
give me a good solid 175 kW charge rate at a 150 kW EA stations (which occurs more often than I get 268 kW) - and I'm happy - honestly the difference given the taper curve is inconsequential vs. the overall overhead of the "stop" …
270 kW charging would _ONLY _ be significant in my opinion if…
I could get it reliably
and the taper didn't kick in until well above 65%
neither of those two things are true with the current state of EA and the current Taycan batteries (2020-2024) model years…
if you're rocking a 150-175 kW charge rate honestly you're to 60% in less than 12 minutes - and deep into the 8x% by the 25 min mark - and pushing low 90's when you start paying for the session at the 30 minute mark …
I guess I was thinking AC charging vs. DC. “Porsche Pro” said MY20 limited to 9.x KWh vs 11.x kwh for MY21+ (for AC).
_ALL_ Taycan's come with 11 kW onboard chargers - always have - Porsche is just clueless - they can not wrap their head around the fact that in north america the PMC+/PMCC are limited to 9.6 kW (240V @ 40 amps 50 amp breaker) because they are mobile EVSE's - but the vehicle is limited to 11 kW (240V @ 48 amps 60 amp breaker).
2021's have an optional 19.2 kW onboard charger - but it can be retrofitted - but it's mostly useless in north america unless you are installing a 100 amp EVSE in places you commonly charge your EV.
porsche's most recent attempt to "fix" their North American spec's sheet is now wrong in the other way - it's lists the onboard charger for the Taycan at 11 kW (this is correct) but also lists the PMC+ as an 11 kW EVSE - which is wrong and impossible in North America - because plug-based devices (which include EVSE's) are limited to 50 amps - 11 kW requires 60 amps and therefore must be hardwired - you can not have a "hardwired" and "mobile" EVSE…and the north American PMC+/PMCC are spec'd as 9.6 kW devices (40 amps w/50 amp breaker)…so they couldn't even do 11 kW _IF_ you hardwired them.
the _ONLY_ Porsche EVSE that can go above 9.6 kW is the Porsche Wall Charger - adjustable from 15-100 amp breakers - and alwasy hardwired.
Porsche's charging game and their grasp of charging is an unmitigated sh*t show in my opinion - and it shows in their lack of awareness that their EVSE sucks, and they can't even get their spec's correct on their webiste.
this post from 2020 confirms at least my and other owner's North American Taycan's ship with 11 kW onboard chargers…just like all other Taycan's world wide - there is no reason to suspect Taycan was ever limited to 9.6 kW - it just requires a hardwired EVSE which in 2020 Porsche didn't actually sell in north america, so it would've required a non-Porsche EVSE. (and in what must be a supply chain simplification even the Cayenne hybrid '24 ships with an 11 kW onboard charger - which I'm willing to guess makes the entire hybrid/ev supply chain simplier - prosche never _HAD_ a 9.6 kW onboard charger - they had 3.6 & 7.2 & 11 kW - there was never a 9.6 kW onboard charger anywhere in the VW/Audi/Porsche supply chain).
yep just checked - standard equipment is wrong on the Porsche USA website - I notified my dealer/service managter months ago - they apparenlty dont' care -
they list:
Taycan as comign with 11 kW onboard charger - this is 100% correct
PMC+ as an 11 kW charger - this is wrong (it's limited to 9.6 kW)
and they then list correctly it uses a NEMA 14-50/6-50 cable - this is correct - but inconsistent with their previous 11 kW assertion - NEMA 14-50/6-50 is 50 amp circuit - 11 kW requires a 60 amp breaker - so a NEMA 14-50/6-50 socket can not handle 11 kW safely…
but I guess that's ok because Porsche's sh*t PMC+/PMCC overheat if you try and run them at full 9.6 kW and porsche nerfed them with OTA updates and a recall in Oct. of 2022 because they were melting cheap NEMA sockets with their normal operating temperatures…
screen shot below as of date/time of this posting from porsche USA configurator - and is the the test if you click on "standard" equipment on the website.
Last edited by daveo4porsche; 08-25-2023 at 10:56 PM.
it's also wrong for the '24 Cayenne eHybrid - but less wrong - but only because it's vague and poorly worded…I guess they are not claiming the PMC+ is 11 kW - but it's 100% unclear what they are saying.
_ALL_ Taycan's come with 11 kW onboard chargers - always have - Porsche is just clueless - they can not wrap their head around the fact that in north america the PMC+/PMCC are limited to 9.6 kW (240V @ 40 amps 50 amp breaker) because they are mobile EVSE's - but the vehicle is limited to 11 kW (240V @ 48 amps 60 amp breaker).
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Okay, this is helpful. I very much appreciate your detailed posts! I was nearly certain of the 11KW onboard for MY20 and the Porsche Pro at this dealer does seem to be confused/wrong or confusing with PMC+/PMCC.
Okay, this is helpful. I very much appreciate your detailed posts! I was nearly certain of the 11KW onboard for MY20 and the Porsche Pro at this dealer does seem to be confused/wrong or confusing with PMC+/PMCC.
all Taycans = 11 kw onboard charger _OR_ 19.2 kw optional onboard charger - the 19.2 kw option was introduced w/2021 - $1680 factory option
North American PMC+/PMCC = 9.6 kW charging rate max (same will _ALL_ NEMA 14-50/6-50 based EVSEs) - more than 9.6 kW requires PWCC or alternate non-Porsche hardwired 48/60 amp EVSE - same for all EVSE's > 50 amps.
dealers are confused - very very confused - they are wrong.
the 19.2 kW onboard charger is a ~5000 retrofit "kit" - $1800 parts + $3000-$4000 labor - price varies by dealers and you'll have to have them "look up the kit" - it's not worth it so I wouldn't bother.
few if any dealers/service managers "know" what they are talking about when it comes to EV charging - best to assume they are wrong.
the only _ACTUAL_ difference with a 2020 Taycan is no plug & charge support (that was added in 2021) - but it can be enabled if you pay $5000 for the 19.2 kW retrofit kit.
those are the facts - anyone who tells you different is confused/wrong - I know my sh*t in this space - better than porsche.
so basically there is no such thing as a 2019/2020 Taycan w/19.2 factory onboard charger and/or plug&charge support
with 2021 19.2 kW became an option, and plug&charge was added FastDC charging
you can "add" plug&charge support to a 2019/2020 Taycan w/19.2 kW retrofit kit
2021 also had the HUD as an option and some new factory colors
PCM software has been updated to be the same across the line 2019-current day (may require free dealer service for the PCM software update - color icon's are the quickest way to determine if your Taycan "has" the latest PCM software)
Wireless Carplay came along with the software update and I believe Android Auto
and the brake calipers for some of the brake options were adjusted (smaller I believe for the PSCB option , but you can double check me here)
GTS model was added in 2021 or 2022
Last edited by daveo4porsche; 08-26-2023 at 12:39 AM.
08-22-2023, 10:41 PM
Two questions: MY20 and "accessories" under CPO?
it's also wrong for the '24 Cayenne eHybrid - but less wrong - but only because it's vague and poorly worded…I guess they are not claiming the PMC+ is 11 kW - but it's 100% unclear what they are saying.