mdosu

I'm in the hunt for a pre-owned GTS ST. Many are not built with the 150kw option. I noticed many owners talk about the 30 minute 20-80% charge at a working 350kw DC charger operated by EA. I understand that the charge rate varies throughout the session, and is dependent on SoC and battery temps, but does the car have to have that 150kw option too? I'm not understanding how the onboard charger rated at 150kw can charge at speeds averaging 170 kw at a 350 KW station. What would be a typical change time for a 50 kw onboard charger at a similar station?Thanks

daveo4porsche

the 150kW/400V option is required for 150 kW charging at stations that provide 400V charging sessions - this is predominately Tesla Superchargers - there are some, but not a lot of 400V charging stations in North American (other than Tesla superchargers). Newer CCS1 stations tend to be 800V, and legacy 400V stations tend to be 50 kW or less…

if you find a 400V stations and are limited to 50 kW - charge time will be about 90 minutes - so yes you need the 400V/150 kW option to charge in less than 90 minutes _IF_ you are at a 400V stations and do not have the 400V/150kW option in your Taycan - this is also assuming the 400V station can do more than 50 kW…

this option was always confusing because it's a confluence of factors (all outside your control) where you "need" this option - it's not like you as the consumer control as to if any given CCS1 charging station is 400V/800V - that's a decision made when the station was installed/configured by the charging network operator…also as to if it's a 400V/800V charging session that is rarely indicated/advertised or even discoverable by the "end user"…I've been at 800V stations and gotten a 400V charging session - how do I know? Well these stations in Pruneridget, CA happen to show the charging voltage on screen (most stations don't) - why did my 800V Taycan get a 400V charging session - no idea - even the network operator when I called them didn't know - but the charging session on this one time was negotiated as a 400V session even though both the vehilcle and the station could do 800V…so in all honestly this sort of thing is 100% out of your control as a user of the vehicle and various charging stations.

math

usable battery size 84.3 kWh
charge range for estimation purposes 5% to 95% - 90% total charge
90% * 84.3 kWh = 75.87 kWh - let's call it 80 kWh "needed"

80 kWh / 50 kW = 1.6 hours
80 kWh / 150 kW = 0.53 hours

Personally I wouldn't own a Taycan with out the 150 kW/400V option, but in all honestly it's hard to determine when/where it will be used (other than 100% for superchargers)

on Taycan .2 this is no longer an option - and I believe Porsche should've never made this option - it's not a consumer level decision or even anything you control as to if any given charging session is 400V or 800V …

due to improved battery architecture this is also no longer an issue for the new Macan - it will alwasy charge as fast as possible for 400V or 800V charging…

this was always a stupid option for Porsche to leave up to the consumer - especially given the option cost $460 (less than the sports sound option) - so it was never really about the cost of the component.

YMMV

mdosu

Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense. The 150kw selectable option at less than $500 doesn't make sense. The 19.2 KW AC charger made sense given owners can choose to hardwire a 100amp panel. 19.2kw option very rare, but i do see it on highly spec'd Turbo cars. If I can score a GTS with a 19.2 I will definitely upgrade my home panel, currently a 50a Charepoint plug.

I thought about my use of the Taycan and while a good 90% of use is in town whereby I will always charge at home, and rarely need more than 100 miles any given day, I do make trips from Bay Area CA to Tahoe and LA/SD. Even going to Tahoe, I need to charge once each way at the foothills, and at times I'm trying to beat traffic, weather, and have kids in the back, so a 30 minute charge is very important. For my SoCal trips, my final destinations vary in ability to get a consistent overnight charge as many hotels I've stayed at either don't have a charger or even at the full service resorts, there are so many EVs, they cannot guarantee a full charge for any car. My typical route to SoCal takes me past Carson, and my future plan will be to stop by PECLA for break and take in the free (?) charging. I also noticed, Chargepoint has a network of DC chargers in SD County off the I-5 too, and rarely busy, so the Taycan fits very well in my lifestyle.

My search continues for a 150kw GTS ST!

thebishman

Given that Porsche has bounced it will be using the NACS in the future, the onboard 150kw charger should be standard on all Taycans being produced; not an option!

daveo4porsche

for Taycan .2 there is not longer an option so I'm guessin 400V/150 kW is now standard on all .2 Taycan's

for Macan EV the split pack battery design also accommodates high speed 400V charging

so this little hic-up is now in the rear view mirror as an odd and endearing aspect of the first gen Porsche EV…this will be a trivia question at some future PCA social event - LOL

Spyerx

I have it but never have used it, if you will use 400v chargers, it matters. Thats it... I don't know if it's a showstopper really... sort of depends on your situation.

the 19.2 charger I have too, never used that, it was optioned but I'd have never choosen it.

mdosu

Sounds like you typically charge at home. A 50a is sufficient and that's what I have currently.

Spyerx

I've only ever used EA fast chargers and they charge fast when they work.

But yes usually at home.

daveo4porsche

a working EA charger (emphasis on working) + Taycan is the best fast charging experience in north american right now for actual speed…

I've owned Tesla's for years - and supercharged a alot - but the few times when EA works and works well the Taycan is the best fast charging EV there is - hands down - simply wonderful.

the weakest part of the Taycan _IS_ the EA charging network in North America - it's been a HUGE let down in the overall quality of the Taycan product…

EA is an actual deterrent to EV ownership…but when it rarely works and works well the Taycan is a pleassure to fast charger - far far far better than any Tesla Supercharger experience I've had since 2012…

the level of EA's fail in this space is deeply underestimated by all invovled and the impact is also deeply hurtful and punitive - EA has made CCS1 EV's in North America non-viable - but perhaps that was the goal all along.

superchargers win because they are "fast enough" and much much much more reliable/predictable than EA - but for actual charging speed in real world scenarios the Taycan with a 100%b functional EA charger is actually the best thing going…EA loses on unreliability, derating of the charge speed, and general sucky'ness…vs. a reliable and ample Supercharger network.

mprog

exactly this.
With Tesla supercharger access coming next year for Porsche, make sure to get the 400V charger on board.

mdosu

what was the poor experience with Tesla charging?

mprog

Keep in mind that V4 Superchargers will support up to 1kV charging, and there the Taycan will be able to charge only limited by itself.

Until then, yeah the best charging experience would be EA 350kW chargers that WORK and don’t have a massive queue (and hopefully aren’t located in the dark back corner of a sketchy strip mall!)

daveo4porsche

few if any "poor" experiences with Tesla chargers in that that mostly/always worked - the Taper curve on Tesla's is more aggressive vs. Taycan - and therefore very little time is actually spent at optimal/theoretical charging speeds - a lot of dawdling about between 80-120 kW is my persona experience with legacy and newer Tesla's which is still fast but not as fast as advertised (gosh Tesla overstate something!!!) or as fast as it could be…

the Taycan's taper curve is one of the best (if not the best) in the industry and holds well above 150 kW until at least 50% SOC (sometimes 60%) - and after that can still be doing 90-100 kW even at 85% SOC

if you get an fully functional EA charge (lottery hit odds) and the Taycan's battery in the right temp zones - the charge rates and speed are amazing…even under ideal circumstances Tesla's come no where close to what the Taycan is allowed to do for a charging curve by Porsche's BMS…

mprog

Some good data to go with this thread. I'm looking forward to trying a road-trip in my Taycan.
We have an EQS too, which is only 200kW peak, but holds above 100kW all the way to 80%... it's surprising how fast it charges without the massive peaks (it's also a 400V architecture so doesn't have a lot of choice there).

The new Macan seems to be incredible too.

kort677

since I now pay for charging on trips I try to avoid EA chargers. Here in Florida FPL has a good network of 120 and 240 units. I recently charged at a branded 7/11 charger and was over 170 kwh. the money spent to avoid EA is sometimes money well spent.
after EA the EVGO and Chargepoint chargers are pretty bad.