ldamelio

Cross post from HPDE and Racing forum:

In my first year of HPDE, about 10 track days. Just came from a weekend at Pocono cut short by corded front tires (left shot, right early cording).

Background info:

718 Cayman S, bone stock, no suspension mods
Front tires new - less than 1000 road miles, about 15 heat cycles on tires over two events (all on same track - Pocono N/S SCCA layout; right turn heavy)
OEM N spec Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 235/35/20
Ambient temps 60's - low 80's
Driving fairly hard with a great instructor who really pushed me, so lots of threshold braking , using the curbs appropriately, etc..
First session started out with tire pressures 31-32; finished way too high at 41 front, 39 rear
Took some out, started second session at 29 - 30; finished at about 36 all around. Left front shot with much of the outer rubber (about 1.5 inches) gone; right not too happy either.
Probably ran them a bit high on the other event I did on them last month (finish at 38-39 most sessions)

I know that I will eat street tires as I go faster and will need camber plates and toe links. In the short term, I have a few questions:

- Is it likely that I trashed these because of my poor pressure management? I'm going to replace them with the same but don't want to spend $750 for street tires that only get 15 heat cycles.
- Is it something known about these tires? I didn't see anything bad in the track-focused reviews of them that I read.
- These deteriorated faster than the same tires I started HPDE with. These had about 20,000 road miles and hence had been heat cycled to a degree before seeing the track. Do street tires benefit from gentle heat cycles of daily driving before going to the track?
- What's my next step? I've been looking at dedicated track wheels and tires but have been hesitant because I will be a 'drive to the track' guy for the next couple of years and am hesitant about anything I can't drive in the rain. Eventually I'll have a dedicated track car.

I'm happy to go through a couple of sets of tires a season (say 15 -18 track days) if it can be fixed by some negative camber and better pressure management.

TIA for replies

MrMarco

They can't say you didn't push your vehicle to the limit. I spent many a weekend at the track (PIR) helping out my buddy prep his '76. I can't tell you how disappointed I was to see him come in second to last time and time again because he lacked the intestinal fortitude to DRIVE!

Bravo!

Start a go fund me, I will donate to your cause.

ldamelio

Thanks; I was driving as hard as I could as a ' green on the cusp of blue' first year HPDE driver. I appreciate the Go Fund me offer, but it's a bad look for a guy with new Porsche ;} I'll take some stock tips instead!

VoodooUomo

Going faster will chew your tires faster.
How much track time are you getting per track day? If you're around 2+ hours per track day then 3.5 track days doesn't strike me as strange (context: I track a street 911 and GT4 in stock form like you and race a dedicated race car).
If the wear is very uneven between the outside and inside edges of the tire (the outside being more) you may get an incremental improvement in tire life with more camber.
Keep your tires in the 32-34 PSI range when hot on the track. This will usually require very low cold pressures, you can do it in stages (go out for a couple laps, get them warm and high pressure, let air out, repeat) or you can start with what you determine is the right cold starting pressure (usually a little under 25 psi) and be careful on the out-laps to not damage the tire until the pressures go up.
If the high pressures are accelerating your wear you will see a wear pattern where the middle of the tire is the most worn out and tread is left on both sides.

I have never put camber plates or toe links on a street car, so the need is a bit subjective. I have gotten track specific alignments which usually boil down to maximal negative camber and almost zero toe.

A competition tire may have longer life but as you mentioned adds significant overhead to going out for a track day. I'm too lazy and know I would just not do the track day if I had to prepare tires and trailer or worry too much about Seattle's rainy weather.

Apex Wheels

I think you are spot on. It really comes down to managing tire pressures and purchasing and installing suspension components that allow you to dial in the appropriate alignment settings. I love when customers new to the sport have the sensibility and restraint to focus on developing their skills behind the wheel. With that said, the preparations and modifications that we do recommend early on are not so much about increasing performance as they are keeping the driver safe and out on track for as long as possible, as well as mitigating the seasonal expense of consumables. Nobody wants a track day or weekend cut short after all the time and money invested to be there.

Camber plates, LCAs, and toe links will improve handling and allow you to extract more performance and longevity out of your tires. Over time these mods will pay for themselves in the form of tire wear.

Setting the stock oversized 20" wheels aside for street driving and/or the occasional rainy track day and picking up lightweight 18" wheels will improve performance, mitigate understeer, improve tire availability in desirable compounds, and reduce the running cost of tires for seasons to come.

Street tires do just fine for those wanting to get their feet wet or those who only attend a track day or two each year, but they are not developed to handle the heat and abuse of repetitive lapping when you start to pick up the pace. If you do move to a set of 18" (or 19") wheels, upgrading to something like a Nitto NT01, Hankook RS-4, Falken RT660, etc. will increase in performance and longevity and will still give you a lot of feedback at the limit. These compounds can also be driven to and from the race track so you don't need to worry about a trailer... yet

- Ryan

Quix

Ryan could you say a bit more about this? Specifically, doesn't having more sidewall detract from performance? Thanks in advance.

Apex Wheels

Not necessarily, it has more to do with how you support the amount of sidewall you have. So if we put a 245/40-18 on an 18x8" wheel it will work, but the sidewalls are pulled inward reducing support. Similar thought process as having a narrow stance vs a wide stance, with it being easy to push over something with a narrow base. Now if you put that same 245/40-18 on an 18x9", you now have a tire that is actually supported by an appropriate width wheel allowing the tire to perform as it should.

Some other benefits are the availability of 18" track-oriented tires, whether you want the NT-01, Toyo RR, or Slicks. All of these have more available sizes in the 18" variants. This along with a pretty substantial price saving per tire when compared to their larger diameter relatives. I've seen an increase of $75-$100 per tire just going from an 18" to a 19".

- Brandon

RubberDuckie39

Recommendations on how to prolong your tire life would be more helpful if you could specifically describe tire wear you're experiencing (outside shoulder wear, both shoulders, middle tire wear. significant cupping, etc). Tell us more about the tires beyond "shot/early cording".

ldamelio

Thanks, old thread. I have a couple of more seasons under my belt aided by experience, helpful advice and new wheels/tires (thanks Apex - both your wheels and advice in this thread are great!) Long story short, I was over driving the car (braking too late, abrupt turn in) and tearing chunks off the outside edges of the OEM 400 TW tires. I'm much faster and smoother now and running RE71RS and all is good. Also added some camber.

ApexPerformance

Hit Clark up at Apex Performance for Ferodo pads and Girodisc rotors. We are the largest supplier to Porsche drivers for Ferodo & Girodisc in the US.

Linda